Bungling Apple Lost the Plot on Texting

Post by Warren
Iphones are for stupid people.

I've never owned one. Just Samsung. It's what I like.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Andrew

2024-11-22 16:25:43 UTC

Post by Warren
Iphones are for stupid people.

I've never owned one. Just Samsung. It's what I like.

Apple owners are basically ignorant people swayed by brilliant marketing.

None of them even know that Apple has never fully supported more than a
single release at a time. Never. They "think" Apple fully supports older
releases - which - let's be clear - every other oS vender does.

But not Apple.
Yet Apple owners think they have the best support.

When it turns out, they have the worst support (by far!).
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>

While Microsoft has the best full support in the industry, even Google &
Samsung promise 7 years of full support while Apple only promises 5.
<https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/technology/personaltech/smartphones-software-update-ios-android.html>
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>

Apple owners only know what Apple marketing fed them to believe.

I own plenty of iPhones, iPads and Android phones (Samsung, Motorola, LG,
etc.) where extremely few people understand the real differences between
them. Mostly the iPHone can't do anything that Android does.

And yet, there's NOTHING the iPhone can do that Android can't do.
Especially if the Android users decide to log into mainframes out there.

Then there is absolutely nothing the walled garden has over Android.
Nor Windows.

The iPhone is a dumb terminal.
It's not a smart phone at all.

It can't do anything if the user doesn't log into Cupertino mainframes.
Nothing.

The mainframe server does all that walled-garden stuff.

The "walled garden" is a euphemism for the "mainframe server concept".

Notwithstanding most Android owners log into Google's Palo Alto mainframes
too, at least Android works just fine WITHOUT logging into that mainframe.

Microsoft Windows too.

Since most functionality is from app developers, and since Google can't
limit what developers provide but Apple not only can - but does - there is
never going to be any useful functionality on an iPhone that isn't already
on Android - and worse - much worse - there is tons (and tons) of
functionality on Android that will never be on the iPhone, e.g.,
app launchers, system firewalls, alternate app repos, wi-fi debuggers,
cellular debuggers, side-by-side OS (like Andronix), automatic call
recording (emphasis on automatic), gps location spoofing, complete
automation, true file system explorers, choices for most default apps,
free youtube players without ads, free search engines that have the
filters you really want, audio controls galore, camera settings that
make sense (and on and on and on where the iPhone is a dumb device).

Even fewer people understand the type of person who stands in long lines
outside the Apple store because they can't wait to trade in their old
iPhone (notice that's what they're actually doing!) for a "better" one.

There's a lesson in those words above in the strange psychology of the
typical Apple owner. They've been told their entire lives that they're
stupid - but - Apple tells them they're geniuses for standing outside the
Apple store all night to get rid of their old iPhone at a fraction of what
it cost them, only to replace it with something that costs twice what it's
worth and which can't do anything that Android has done for years.

Worse, Apple doesn't tell them that the iPhone is the most exploited phone
in history - by far - which the government reports reliably every day!
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

Microsoft being crap too notwithstanding, Apple products are vulnerable:
<https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-49/Apple.html>

Alan

2024-11-22 20:55:06 UTC

Post by Warren
Iphones are for stupid people.

I've never owned one. Just Samsung. It's what I like.

Apple owners are basically ignorant people swayed by brilliant marketing.

Oh, look!

A reply full of stuff that is not in any way on topic.

Post by Andrew
None of them even know that Apple has never fully supported more than a
single release at a time. Never. They "think" Apple fully supports older
releases - which - let's be clear - every other oS vender does.
But not Apple.
Yet Apple owners think they have the best support.
When it turns out, they have the worst support (by far!).
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
While Microsoft has the best full support in the industry, even Google &
Samsung promise 7 years of full support while Apple only promises 5.
<https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/technology/personaltech/smartphones-software-update-ios-android.html>
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>
Apple owners only know what Apple marketing fed them to believe.
I own plenty of iPhones, iPads and Android phones (Samsung, Motorola, LG,
etc.) where extremely few people understand the real differences between
them. Mostly the iPHone can't do anything that Android does.
And yet, there's NOTHING the iPhone can do that Android can't do.
Especially if the Android users decide to log into mainframes out there.
Then there is absolutely nothing the walled garden has over Android.
Nor Windows.
The iPhone is a dumb terminal.
It's not a smart phone at all.
It can't do anything if the user doesn't log into Cupertino mainframes.
Nothing.
The mainframe server does all that walled-garden stuff.
The "walled garden" is a euphemism for the "mainframe server concept".
Notwithstanding most Android owners log into Google's Palo Alto mainframes
too, at least Android works just fine WITHOUT logging into that mainframe.
Microsoft Windows too.
Since most functionality is from app developers, and since Google can't
limit what developers provide but Apple not only can - but does - there is
never going to be any useful functionality on an iPhone that isn't already
on Android - and worse - much worse - there is tons (and tons) of
functionality on Android that will never be on the iPhone, e.g.,
app launchers, system firewalls, alternate app repos, wi-fi debuggers,
cellular debuggers, side-by-side OS (like Andronix), automatic call
recording (emphasis on automatic), gps location spoofing, complete
automation, true file system explorers, choices for most default apps,
free youtube players without ads, free search engines that have the
filters you really want, audio controls galore, camera settings that
make sense (and on and on and on where the iPhone is a dumb device).
Even fewer people understand the type of person who stands in long lines
outside the Apple store because they can't wait to trade in their old
iPhone (notice that's what they're actually doing!) for a "better" one.
There's a lesson in those words above in the strange psychology of the
typical Apple owner. They've been told their entire lives that they're
stupid - but - Apple tells them they're geniuses for standing outside the
Apple store all night to get rid of their old iPhone at a fraction of what
it cost them, only to replace it with something that costs twice what it's
worth and which can't do anything that Android has done for years.
Worse, Apple doesn't tell them that the iPhone is the most exploited phone
in history - by far - which the government reports reliably every day!
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>
<https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-49/Apple.html>

Andrew

2024-11-22 22:29:21 UTC

While Microsoft has the best full support in the industry ...

But Microsoft don't make any mobile devices.

Microsoft's hotfix support for Windows is the best in the industry.
For example, my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.

And Microsoft fully supports multiple concurrent releases (which are
currently Windows 10 & Windows 11 but these change over time).

Google & Samsung were forced to tell the EU in writing how long they fully
support their latest phones and they reported that it was seven years.

Apple was also forced to put it in writing, and they are only five years.
But what's much worse about Apple is that Apple has *never* fully supported
two releases at the same time. Never in its entire history.

So Apple has the worst support both in releases and in time frame.
There's a reason the iPhone is the most exploited phone in history.

Notice you won't hear that from Apple's (brilliant) Marketing.
But the government publishes the report every day of active exploits.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

And notice Apple obfuscates that they only fully support one release.
But security researchers forced Apple's hand & Apple had to admit it.
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>

Bear in mind, until iOS 16, Apple didn't even have a way to patch bugs
without writing a whole new operating system even if 1 line of code
changed. With the advent of iOS 16 RSRs, Apple joined the modern world.
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>

It's interesting how powerful (brilliant) propaganda is when most people
who are ignorant of these details think Apple has the best hotfix support.

When it's Apple actually, who has the worst hotfix support by far in the
industry.

Joel

2024-11-23 13:12:33 UTC

Post by Andrew
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.

Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current iterations
just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically,
even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're
kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Klaus Schadenfreude

2024-11-23 13:16:08 UTC

Post by Andrew
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.

And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!

ROFLMAO

Andrew

2024-11-23 14:15:47 UTC

Post by Andrew
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.

And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!

As I said, my desktop is from 2009 and it runs Windows 10 just fine.
This is well known information as I've posted using it for years.

But Microsoft won't let me upgrade it to Windows 11, as you noted.
So my old desktop may no longer get me past the next couple of years.

Having come from SunOS/VAXvms/Masscomp and IBM mainframes before that, I
wouldn't expect the old PDP 11 I used in grad school to still be working.

But a Windows PC?
Microsoft supports them virtually forever for full OS hotfix support.

And after that, I can put Ubuntu or Centos back on it if I wanted.
(I used to dual boot to them so I still have that damn grub menu.)

But lately, I ditched Linux 'cuz Windows does what I need it to do.
(Mostly Microsoft Office is what I use day in and day out.)

And yes, I've tried *all* the office look-alike suites.
They're just not the same.

Still, I love Linux just as much as I loved hex programming the 68701.
You can do anything with it.

But we're talking about full hotfix support here.
Full hotfix support means fixing EVERY bug known to the OS vendor.

Linux is good for that.
Microsoft is great for that too.
Apple? Not so much.

In fact, Apple sucks like you can't believe at that.

Apple's hotfix support, by contrast, is the worst in the industry.
Apple never has fully supported more than one release at a time.

It's published information (see my prior links).

At least Microsoft supports multiple Windows releases concurrently.
And Microsoft had offered free OS upgrades for a very long time.

Joel

2024-11-23 16:17:49 UTC

Post by Andrew
As I said, my desktop is from 2009 and it runs Windows 10 just fine.
This is well known information as I've posted using it for years.

You have low standards. 10 was great for my machine, built in 2021
with a 10th gen i5 CPU and NVMe storage, but 11 23H2 was already
getting more bloated than I care to use, and I've been solidly with
Linux for the last year. Win10 is a dead end, and the only salvation
for your ancient machine would be Linux.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Andrew

2024-11-23 16:35:41 UTC

Post by Andrew
As I said, my desktop is from 2009 and it runs Windows 10 just fine.
This is well known information as I've posted using it for years.

I hear you, but I'm an octogenarian who took classes on an IBM 1130 in
Fortran IV with card readers (the paper tape reader was still in the
elevated-floor computer room but I never used it) and magtape racks.

Since it was Fortran IV, it was well before 1977 that I started with
computers, so I used every variant of operating system consumers use.

Linux is fine. What's really nice is awk, sed, grep, etc., though.
But at this point, I'm mostly using Microsoft Office & Paint.NET.

I used to dual boot, especially when I wanted to edit files that Windows
wouldn't let me edit but Ubunto would. Ubuntu is also great for working
with iOS devices since iFuse works around all of Apple's restrictions.

It's intereting but only we Linux folks understand iOS well.
The Apple trolls don't know anything about anything - least of all iOS.

For example, none of them can turn their iPhone/iPad into a USB stick:
<Loading Image...

> iOS/Win is 1-way & DCIM only
<Loading Image...

> iOS "Files" is nothing useful
<Loading Image...

> Android is two way, everything
<Loading Image...

> Ubuntu is two way, everything
<Loading Image...

> Ubuntu, movies _to_ iOS on USB
<Loading Image...

> Ubuntu iFuse is just magical
<Loading Image...

> Ubuntu is two-way, everything
<Loading Image...

> iOS is a dumb brick on Windows
<Loading Image...

> iOS is only DCIM & only 1-way
<Loading Image...

> Android is 2-way fast over USB
<Loading Image...

> iOS requires hacks to copy
<Loading Image...

> iOS hacks very often will fail
<Loading Image...

> How does macOS work with iOS?
<Loading Image...

> Linux, win10 & iOS together

You just boot up Ubuntu and the entire iPad is an accessible USB stick!
<Loading Image...

> Read & write all!
<Loading Image...

> Anywhere you want
<Loading Image...

> Any file you want
<Loading Image...

> Copy Win10 to iOS
<Loading Image...

> read & write iOS
<Loading Image...

> iFuse mounts all!
<Loading Image...

> iFuse mounts iOS
<Loading Image...

> iFuse mounts Windows
<Loading Image...

> iFuse is Ubuntu native
<Loading Image...

> Which nobody knows!
<Loading Image...

> This is the trick!
<Loading Image...

> If you know a trick
<Loading Image...

> For both read & write
<Loading Image...

> Including DCIM folder
<Loading Image...

> View iOS filesystem
<Loading Image...

> iOS mounts on Ubuntu
<Loading Image...

> Allow device access?
<Loading Image...

> Trust This Computer?
<Loading Image...

> Ubuntu before iOS

Anyway, the Apple owners have no clue their devices are completely
brain dead - they're just dumb terminals - logging into the Cupertino
server mainframes just to do the most basic of tasks like messaging.

And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.

Joel

2024-11-23 18:32:26 UTC

Post by Andrew
It's intereting but only we Linux folks understand iOS well.
The Apple trolls don't know anything about anything - least of all iOS.
Anyway, the Apple owners have no clue their devices are completely
brain dead - they're just dumb terminals - logging into the Cupertino
server mainframes just to do the most basic of tasks like messaging.
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.

Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 19:03:55 UTC

Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.

In what sense?

Who or what are the the enemy OF?

Post by Joel
M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

Joel

2024-11-23 19:32:48 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.

In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?

People who like getting value for money.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 19:50:42 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.

In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?

People who like getting value for money.

The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.

Next.

chrisv

2024-11-23 20:18:00 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.

In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?

People who like getting value for money.

They are a fine value, for some fraction of the market.

Post by Alan
The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.

Some idiots just don't "get" the need for choice, and that all
products that remain viable in a market are, by definition, the "best
value" for some fraction the market.

That includes desktop Linux, of course.

--
'The only ones who are [using Linux] have found that there's a
compelling reason to tolerate its high level of bullshit.' - lying
asshole "-hh"

Alan

2024-11-23 20:24:06 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.

In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?

People who like getting value for money.

They are a fine value, for some fraction of the market.

A very significant fraction.

Post by chrisv

Post by Alan
The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.

A very small fraction, sure.

Joel

2024-11-23 20:26:08 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.

In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?

People who like getting value for money.

The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Next.

It suggests that people have disposable income that they put toward
Apple gear, incessantly, it's ridiculous how little storage you get by
default with their devices, I had a 1 TB NVMe drive as a part, it's
still going 3 1/2 years later, at the time the iMac or Mac mini
would've had a small amount of storage, and still cost a lot. You're
a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 20:42:17 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.

In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?

People who like getting value for money.

The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Next.

Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is sucker?

Is that your position?

Does Apple charge more for storage and memory upgrades? Absolutely they do.

Do people choose to pay for those upgrades because they value the entire
package?

Yup.

Do you think those people are incapable of seeing the difference in
price between Apple's offerings and other devices?

What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?

What makes their software "crap"?

Joel

2024-11-23 21:10:02 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.

In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?

People who like getting value for money.

The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Next.

Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is sucker?
Is that your position?

If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.

Post by Alan
Does Apple charge more for storage and memory upgrades? Absolutely they do.
Do people choose to pay for those upgrades because they value the entire
package?
Yup.
Do you think those people are incapable of seeing the difference in
price between Apple's offerings and other devices?
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
What makes their software "crap"?

I have a killer computer, because I'm using modern gear with Linux.
It's the only way to achieve this. Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 21:22:41 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.

In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?

People who like getting value for money.

The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Next.

Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is sucker?
Is that your position?

If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.

How are those two related? "joel"?

I have a killer computer, because I'm using modern gear with Linux.

Not an answer to any of my questions.

Post by Joel
It's the only way to achieve this.

Not an answer to any of my questions.

Post by Joel
Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.

Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?

Joel

2024-11-23 21:48:11 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.

In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?

People who like getting value for money.

The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Next.

Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is sucker?
Is that your position?

If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.

How are those two related? "joel"?

Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.

I have a killer computer, because I'm using modern gear with Linux.

Not an answer to any of my questions.

Post by Joel
It's the only way to achieve this.

Not an answer to any of my questions.

Post by Joel
Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.

Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?

The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 21:53:32 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.

In what sense?
Who or what are the the enemy OF?

People who like getting value for money.

The very fact that Apple's customer loyalty is absolutely outstanding
suggests that people think they offer excellent value for money.
Next.

Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is sucker?
Is that your position?

If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.

How are those two related? "joel"?

Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.

OK. So?

Why are YOU using it?

I have a killer computer, because I'm using modern gear with Linux.

Not an answer to any of my questions.

Post by Joel
It's the only way to achieve this.

Not an answer to any of my questions.

Post by Joel
Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.

Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?

The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.

You paid a price in other ways...

...and you know it.

What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?

Cost is NOT an answer to that question.

Joel

2024-11-23 22:46:45 UTC

Post by Alan
Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is sucker?
Is that your position?

If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.

How are those two related? "joel"?

Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.

OK. So?
Why are YOU using it?

Because I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.

Post by Joel
Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.

Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?

The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.

You paid a price in other ways...
...and you know it.
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
Cost is NOT an answer to that question.

The price I paid in other ways is called using my brain. Apple drones
are sheep. Cost is the answer to the question because not everyone
can afford to purchase these elite devices from Apple, not everyone
would want to either given the goofiness of the OS. Linux is
difficult, I admit, unless one uses Mint casually, but you get so much
more bang for buck.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 22:59:39 UTC

Post by Alan
Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is sucker?
Is that your position?

If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.

How are those two related? "joel"?

Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.

OK. So?
Why are YOU using it?

Because I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.

Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.

Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...

...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?

Post by Joel
Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.

Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?

The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.

You paid a price in other ways...
...and you know it.
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
Cost is NOT an answer to that question.

Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".

Try again.

Joel

2024-11-23 23:11:30 UTC

Post by Joel
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.

How are those two related? "joel"?

Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.

OK. So?
Why are YOU using it?

Because I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.

Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?

I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.

Post by Joel
Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.

Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?

The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.

You paid a price in other ways...
...and you know it.
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
Cost is NOT an answer to that question.

Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
Try again.

It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 23:42:43 UTC

Post by Joel
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.

How are those two related? "joel"?

Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.

OK. So?
Why are YOU using it?

Because I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.

Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?

I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.

You're still not addressing your claim that the Mac in question is a
"piece of shit".

What a shocker.

Post by Joel
Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.

Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?

The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.

You paid a price in other ways...
...and you know it.
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
Cost is NOT an answer to that question.

Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
Try again.

It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.

So you're a liar when you call it "crap".

Got it.

Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...

...or is that just more of your bullshit?

Joel

2024-11-24 00:08:51 UTC

Post by Joel
I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.

Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?

I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.

You're still not addressing your claim that the Mac in question is a
"piece of shit".
What a shocker.

Relative to its price.

Post by Alan
Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
Try again.

It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.

So you're a liar when you call it "crap".
Got it.
Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...
...or is that just more of your bullshit?

The software is where it really gets weird, the goofy Apple-centric
interface, it's a fine Unix system under the hood to be sure, but who
cares when Linux is a thing?
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-24 00:10:19 UTC

Post by Joel
I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.

Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?

I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.

You're still not addressing your claim that the Mac in question is a
"piece of shit".
What a shocker.

Relative to its price.

Sorry... ...not what you originally claimed.

Post by Alan
Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
Try again.

It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.

So you're a liar when you call it "crap".
Got it.
Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...
...or is that just more of your bullshit?

The software is where it really gets weird, the goofy Apple-centric
interface, it's a fine Unix system under the hood to be sure, but who
cares when Linux is a thing?

That's not an answer to why you claimed:

'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'

So I'll ask again.

Joel

2024-11-24 01:03:23 UTC

Post by Alan
Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...
...or is that just more of your bullshit?

The software is where it really gets weird, the goofy Apple-centric
interface, it's a fine Unix system under the hood to be sure, but who
cares when Linux is a thing?

'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
So I'll ask again.

OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
clear enough?
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-24 01:32:11 UTC

Post by Alan
Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...
...or is that just more of your bullshit?

The software is where it really gets weird, the goofy Apple-centric
interface, it's a fine Unix system under the hood to be sure, but who
cares when Linux is a thing?

'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
So I'll ask again.

OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
clear enough?

You haven't yet explained WHY it is "junk software".

That much is entirely clear.

Joel

2024-11-24 02:10:23 UTC

Post by Alan
'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
So I'll ask again.

OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
clear enough?

You haven't yet explained WHY it is "junk software".
That much is entirely clear.

It's a toy, it's not serious, I mean you have very specific
applications for macOS that are large, e.g. video editing, but not
everyone does these things. For the average personal-computer user,
it's just wasted potential, you have this nice hardware running
inferior software, it's powered by Unix to be sure, and has that
potential within it, but most never realize that.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-24 02:12:23 UTC

Post by Alan
'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
So I'll ask again.

OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
clear enough?

You haven't yet explained WHY it is "junk software".
That much is entirely clear.

It's a toy, it's not serious, I mean you have very specific

In what way is it "not serious"?

Post by Joel
applications for macOS that are large, e.g. video editing, but not
everyone does these things. For the average personal-computer user,
it's just wasted potential, you have this nice hardware running
inferior software, it's powered by Unix to be sure, and has that
potential within it, but most never realize that.

So it's "nice hardware", now?

You called it "crap hardware" just a very short while ago.

Try again.

Joel

2024-11-24 02:38:42 UTC

Post by Alan
'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
So I'll ask again.

OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
clear enough?

You haven't yet explained WHY it is "junk software".
That much is entirely clear.

It's a toy, it's not serious, I mean you have very specific

In what way is it "not serious"?

They just aren't very good programmers, they don't have M$'s elaborate
motif.

So it's "nice hardware", now?
You called it "crap hardware" just a very short while ago.
Try again.

It's crap relative to cost, not poor quality.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

-hh

2024-11-24 00:14:56 UTC

Post by Joel
If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.

How are those two related? "joel"?

Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.

OK. So?
Why are YOU using it?

Because I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
shit.

Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?

I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.

Except that suitability depends on what one's use case is, and it
doesn't matter if we're talking about PCs or cars, or whatever.

So yeah, if you're just drooling on USENET, then a 2017 vintage Mac
laptop would do you perfectly fine ... I'll sell you one for $199.

OTOH, if your work products merit completing them in a timely fashion,
then computers are just like race cars: "Speed cost money. How fast can
you afford to go?"

Post by Joel
Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10
is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
desktop.

Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?

The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.

Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-end" gear?

Post by Alan
You paid a price in other ways...
...and you know it.
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
Cost is NOT an answer to that question.

Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
Try again.

Seems that Joel's also not factored in his personal costs either, such
as the value of not having to worry about stuff.

Post by Joel
It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.

Now not saying that you're a cheapskate <g>, but since you've raised
this as a 'cost' based claim, even if you really mean 'value', what's
your objective metrics which support this?

What level of 'high-end' hardware at what initial deployment cost?

And the other factor is ... for how long will it stay in service for?

And since the future is usually very rosy, what's your track record on
your prior hardware lifespans, and at what cost per unit time?

For example, a $1500 PC that's still worth $100 when its 7 years old
works out to $200/year: how does your historical baseline compare to
that which you're being clearly critical of?

-hh

Joel

2024-11-24 01:13:44 UTC

Post by Joel
I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.

Except that suitability depends on what one's use case is, and it
doesn't matter if we're talking about PCs or cars, or whatever.
So yeah, if you're just drooling on USENET, then a 2017 vintage Mac
laptop would do you perfectly fine ... I'll sell you one for $199.
OTOH, if your work products merit completing them in a timely fashion,
then computers are just like race cars: "Speed cost money. How fast can
you afford to go?"

My CPU is a 2020 model, 10th gen Intel. My motherboard can accept
10th or 11th gen CPUs.

Post by Joel
I paid less to get high-end gear.

Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-end" gear?

I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'd
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, I have a WD Blue NVMe
drive, quality components through and through. You have to assemble
your own hardware, to get a good value. Apple and other higher-end
OEMs are gouging the crap out of people.

Post by Alan
You paid a price in other ways...
...and you know it.
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
Cost is NOT an answer to that question.

Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
Try again.

Seems that Joel's also not factored in his personal costs either, such
as the value of not having to worry about stuff.

I live by my computer. As do a lot of people, who are less techy.
They pay through the nose, for the privilege. I don't.

Post by Joel
It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.

Now not saying that you're a cheapskate <g>, but since you've raised
this as a 'cost' based claim, even if you really mean 'value', what's
your objective metrics which support this?
What level of 'high-end' hardware at what initial deployment cost?
And the other factor is ... for how long will it stay in service for?
And since the future is usually very rosy, what's your track record on
your prior hardware lifespans, and at what cost per unit time?
For example, a $1500 PC that's still worth $100 when its 7 years old
works out to $200/year: how does your historical baseline compare to
that which you're being clearly critical of?

I have a 650 watt power supply. I will replace the CPU fan,
eventually, that's about the extent of the maintenance to expect.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-24 02:14:02 UTC

Post by Joel
I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.

Except that suitability depends on what one's use case is, and it
doesn't matter if we're talking about PCs or cars, or whatever.
So yeah, if you're just drooling on USENET, then a 2017 vintage Mac
laptop would do you perfectly fine ... I'll sell you one for $199.
OTOH, if your work products merit completing them in a timely fashion,
then computers are just like race cars: "Speed cost money. How fast can
you afford to go?"

My CPU is a 2020 model, 10th gen Intel. My motherboard can accept
10th or 11th gen CPUs.

Post by Joel
I paid less to get high-end gear.

Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-end" gear?

And what do you charge for your time when you're working for other people?

Post by Alan
You paid a price in other ways...
...and you know it.
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
Cost is NOT an answer to that question.

Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
Try again.

Seems that Joel's also not factored in his personal costs either, such
as the value of not having to worry about stuff.

I live by my computer. As do a lot of people, who are less techy.
They pay through the nose, for the privilege. I don't.

You pay for it in your time.

Post by Joel
It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.

Now not saying that you're a cheapskate <g>, but since you've raised
this as a 'cost' based claim, even if you really mean 'value', what's
your objective metrics which support this?
What level of 'high-end' hardware at what initial deployment cost?
And the other factor is ... for how long will it stay in service for?
And since the future is usually very rosy, what's your track record on
your prior hardware lifespans, and at what cost per unit time?
For example, a $1500 PC that's still worth $100 when its 7 years old
works out to $200/year: how does your historical baseline compare to
that which you're being clearly critical of?

I have a 650 watt power supply. I will replace the CPU fan,
eventually, that's about the extent of the maintenance to expect.

How is that even relevant to the questions you were just asked?

-hh

2024-11-24 02:39:34 UTC

Post by Joel
I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.

Except that suitability depends on what one's use case is, and it
doesn't matter if we're talking about PCs or cars, or whatever.
So yeah, if you're just drooling on USENET, then a 2017 vintage Mac
laptop would do you perfectly fine ... I'll sell you one for $199.
OTOH, if your work products merit completing them in a timely fashion,
then computers are just like race cars: "Speed cost money. How fast can
you afford to go?"

My CPU is a 2020 model, 10th gen Intel. My motherboard can accept
10th or 11th gen CPUs.

A "10th gen" Intel CPU would be 'Comet Lake' and there's many variations
therein .. from an Xeon or i9 all the way down to Celeron (its below the
i3 and Pentium Gold) .. so which one does your "high-end" system have?

Here's the list:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Lake>

And how does it benchmark against the Mac Studio that you've mentioned?

I'll cut you a break by choosing the lowest end CPU ever sold in the
Studio: the M1 Max cored 2,418 single-core and 12,629 for multi-core in
the Geekbench 6 CPU Benchmark. FYI, the current model with the upper
tier M2 Ultra is single-core 2,819 & multi-core 21,802.

Post by Joel
I paid less to get high-end gear.

Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-end" gear?

I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'd
get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...

Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics
which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4?

Post by Joel
... I have a WD Blue NVMe drive, quality components through and through.

I think you mentioned that its 1TB, right? And since you didn't mention
it, I'm assuming the motherboard has it as a PCI4 single slot, so no
boot drive RAID0 configuration. So then what does that benchmark at in,
say, Blackmagic's Disk Speed Test software?

How much above 7,000 MB/sec does it run while comparing it to the
Studio? After all, you did claim "high-end", so you certainly must have
done some confirmation testing rather than to just "trust me" assume.

Post by Joel
You have to assemble
your own hardware, to get a good value. Apple and other higher-end
OEMs are gouging the crap out of people.

There are some profit-centers to avoid for sure, but the adage of a DIY
"White Box" generic PCs must always be profoundly cheaper is obsolete:
a former (now retired) colleague used to run a side business where he
fabricated "White Box" generic PCs to sell at a discount, but he shut
down that business close to 20 years ago now, because he found that the
competition within the OEM's resulted in narrow enough margins such that
he wasn't really making money for his efforts...IIRC, he shut it down
when it dropped below $50/unit for all of his assembly time.

Post by Alan
You paid a price in other ways...
...and you know it.
What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
Cost is NOT an answer to that question.

Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
Try again.

Seems that Joel's also not factored in his personal costs either, such
as the value of not having to worry about stuff.

I live by my computer. As do a lot of people, who are less techy.
They pay through the nose, for the privilege. I don't.

Not really what I was referring to. Suffice to say that some people
consider their DIY assembly time to be free because they enjoy it as a
hobby ... that's fine, so long as they make that claim clearly upfront.
Where it gets disingenuous is when they try to claim their time costs
nothing, but they won't spend an hour of their supposedly "free" time to
come mow my lawn to prove that they don't value their time.

Post by Joel
It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.

Now not saying that you're a cheapskate <g>, but since you've raised
this as a 'cost' based claim, even if you really mean 'value', what's
your objective metrics which support this?
What level of 'high-end' hardware at what initial deployment cost?
And the other factor is ... for how long will it stay in service for?
And since the future is usually very rosy, what's your track record on
your prior hardware lifespans, and at what cost per unit time?
For example, a $1500 PC that's still worth $100 when its 7 years old
works out to $200/year: how does your historical baseline compare to
that which you're being clearly critical of?

Hmm...a whole bunch of silence here.
Hope it was just overlooked by accident.

Post by Joel
I have a 650 watt power supply. I will replace the CPU fan,
eventually, that's about the extent of the maintenance to expect.

Worrying about rightsizing the PSU?
And CPU fans?

Oh, right: I *used to* have PCs that had those design issues.

-hh

chrisv

2024-11-23 21:27:44 UTC

Post by Alan
Anyone who disagrees with you about how to spend his or her money is sucker?
Is that your position?

If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
can call Apple victims such.

"Nice" logic, "Joel".

I'd call the waving the white flag.

Only assholes ridicule others for their choices. Within reason,
anyway. Some choices are worthy of ridicule, but buying Apple
products sure isn't one of them.

--
"See, now there's a photo that isn't crap. Well done!' - "-hh",
admiring a photo of chrisv's rear-end

chrisv

2024-11-24 00:34:28 UTC

Post by chrisv
Only assholes ridicule others for their choices. Within reason,
anyway. Some choices are worthy of ridicule, but buying Apple
products sure isn't one of them.

Here is a buying decision that I would ridicule:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/viral-duct-taped-banana-sells-6-million-auction-rcna180564

Mickey D

2024-11-24 02:18:08 UTC

Post by chrisv
Only assholes ridicule others for their choices. Within reason,
anyway. Some choices are worthy of ridicule, but buying Apple
products sure isn't one of them.

Well, it's well known that people habitually trade in iPhones, right?
And that people stand in long lines outside the Apple store, right?

Their choice is clearly that they can't wait to trade in their iPhone,
right? So that they can get rid of last year's model for today's model.

Right?

Personally, if they were getting that new phone for free, then I would NOT
ridicule their choice to get rid of their old phone as soon as they could.

And, personally, if they were getting full price on that old iPhone such
that a new iPhone cost absolutely nothing, again I would NOT ridicule them.

But... if they're actually waiting on long lines outside the Apple store
not only to ditch last year's iPhone at a fraction of what they paid for
it, but also to buy that new iPhone at two or three times its value...

Then....

Then I'd ridicule their choices.

Rightly so.

Alan

2024-11-24 02:20:11 UTC

Post by Mickey D

Post by chrisv
Only assholes ridicule others for their choices. Within reason,
anyway. Some choices are worthy of ridicule, but buying Apple
products sure isn't one of them.

Well, it's well known that people habitually trade in iPhones, right?

People "habitually" by new smartphones, yes.

Post by Mickey D
And that people stand in long lines outside the Apple store, right?

Some do. What of it?

Post by Mickey D
Their choice is clearly that they can't wait to trade in their iPhone,
right? So that they can get rid of last year's model for today's model.

Post by chrisv
Right?

Nope. You've made an unsupported jump in your "logic" there.

Post by Mickey D
Personally, if they were getting that new phone for free, then I would NOT
ridicule their choice to get rid of their old phone as soon as they could.
And, personally, if they were getting full price on that old iPhone such
that a new iPhone cost absolutely nothing, again I would NOT ridicule them.
But... if they're actually waiting on long lines outside the Apple store
not only to ditch last year's iPhone at a fraction of what they paid for
it, but also to buy that new iPhone at two or three times its value...
Then....
Then I'd ridicule their choices.
Rightly so.

But there's an "if" in there you don't acknowledge.

Wayne

2024-11-23 19:57:46 UTC

Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
your use of social media ebonics.

Joel

2024-11-23 20:27:24 UTC

Post by Wayne

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
your use of social media ebonics.

I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 20:44:18 UTC

Post by Wayne

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
your use of social media ebonics.

I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)

So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
necessary.

There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.

But most people want to just get in and drive.

Joel

2024-11-23 21:12:15 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
your use of social media ebonics.

I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)

So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.

You're making my case, yep, people who refuse to learn anything get
what they get. Which is paying money. They pay it for tech support,
repairs, on and on. I rely on myself, and get incredible value for
the dollar.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 21:23:53 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
your use of social media ebonics.

I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)

So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.

Not with Apple products.

Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.

Joel

2024-11-23 21:50:44 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
your use of social media ebonics.

I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)

So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.

Not with Apple products.
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.

Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side
of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
the middleman.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 21:54:23 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
your use of social media ebonics.

I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)

So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.

Not with Apple products.
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.

But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.

And you may not need it.

But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
for you... ...you're just delusional.

Joel

2024-11-23 22:49:00 UTC

Post by Alan
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.

But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
And you may not need it.
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
for you... ...you're just delusional.

Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 23:00:27 UTC

Post by Alan
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.

But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
And you may not need it.
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
for you... ...you're just delusional.

Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.

Yeah...

Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
sucker and a loser...

...right?

Joel

2024-11-23 23:16:12 UTC

Post by Alan
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.

But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
And you may not need it.
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
for you... ...you're just delusional.

Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.

Yeah...
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
sucker and a loser...
...right?

It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize. M$ turned Windows 10 into a beta test of what
became Win11. That means supported versions basically *are* Win11
Light. Needing modern storage, realistically. Idiots with old
desktops and laptops, refusing to think about switching to Linux, are
creating landfill and/or third-world flea market material. All they
would have to do is figure out how to install Mint. It's so simple,
but they beLIEve they need M$ or Apple. Just pathetic.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 23:44:50 UTC

Post by Alan
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.

But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
And you may not need it.
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
for you... ...you're just delusional.

Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.

Yeah...
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
sucker and a loser...
...right?

It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize.

Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.

You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
a loser.

Post by Joel
M$ turned Windows 10 into a beta test of what
became Win11. That means supported versions basically *are* Win11
Light. Needing modern storage, realistically. Idiots with old
desktops and laptops, refusing to think about switching to Linux, are
creating landfill and/or third-world flea market material. All they
would have to do is figure out how to install Mint. It's so simple,
but they beLIEve they need M$ or Apple. Just pathetic.

There is nothing magic about Linux that prevents old machines from
becoming too slow for modern software.

Joel

2024-11-24 00:11:47 UTC

Post by Alan
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
for you... ...you're just delusional.

Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.

Yeah...
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
sucker and a loser...
...right?

It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize.

Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
a loser.

In a perfect world, not in the real one.

There is nothing magic about Linux that prevents old machines from
becoming too slow for modern software.

Linux gives life to old computers. My computer is relatively new, and
still benefits from the advantages of Linux, but it's *essential* on
aging hardware, that chokes on Winblows 10, which is almost out of
support anyway.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-24 00:16:20 UTC

Post by Alan
But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
for you... ...you're just delusional.

Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.

Yeah...
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
sucker and a loser...
...right?

It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize.

Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
a loser.

In a perfect world, not in the real one.

I see.

In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".

Is that your position?

There is nothing magic about Linux that prevents old machines from
becoming too slow for modern software.

That may be an argument for problems in Windows.

It's not an argument that only Linux can work well on old hardware.

Joel

2024-11-24 01:16:53 UTC

Post by Alan
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
sucker and a loser...
...right?

It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize.

Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
a loser.

In a perfect world, not in the real one.

I see.
In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".
Is that your position?

Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom. I am
the mortal being of the divine.

There is nothing magic about Linux that prevents old machines from
becoming too slow for modern software.

That may be an argument for problems in Windows.
It's not an argument that only Linux can work well on old hardware.

Oh, if you want to run unsupported Windows versions, sure, you can do
that, but then where are you? It's ludicrous, how Winblows 10 still
pretends you can run it on a single-core, 2 GB RAM, spinning hard
drive, laughable.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-24 01:31:21 UTC

Post by Alan
Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
sucker and a loser...
...right?

It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize.

Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
a loser.

In a perfect world, not in the real one.

I see.
In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".
Is that your position?

Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom. I am
the mortal being of the divine.

Yeah...

...you're just an ass.

There is nothing magic about Linux that prevents old machines from
becoming too slow for modern software.

That may be an argument for problems in Windows.
It's not an argument that only Linux can work well on old hardware.

I knew you wouldn't get it.

chrisv

2024-11-24 01:43:35 UTC

Post by Joel
Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom. I am
the mortal being of the divine.

Yeah...
...you're just an ass.

And they're *still* going around and around, folks.

Yet some people wonder why I just cut things off, when someone is
being unreasonable.

Joel

2024-11-24 02:07:20 UTC

Post by Alan
In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".
Is that your position?

Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom. I am
the mortal being of the divine.

Yeah...
...you're just an ass.

I'm edgy, yeah. But I can back up what I'm saying. M$ and Apple are
about money. Linux is about freedom.

Post by Joel
Linux gives life to old computers. My computer is relatively new, and
still benefits from the advantages of Linux, but it's *essential* on
aging hardware, that chokes on Winblows 10, which is almost out of
support anyway.

That may be an argument for problems in Windows.
It's not an argument that only Linux can work well on old hardware.

I knew you wouldn't get it.

You're the one not getting it. I'm speaking hard truths.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-24 02:14:59 UTC

Post by Alan
In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".
Is that your position?

Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom. I am
the mortal being of the divine.

Yeah...
...you're just an ass.

I'm edgy, yeah. But I can back up what I'm saying. M$ and Apple are
about money. Linux is about freedom.

No. You're not edgy.

You're just overly impressed with yourself.

That may be an argument for problems in Windows.
It's not an argument that only Linux can work well on old hardware.

I knew you wouldn't get it.

You're the one not getting it. I'm speaking hard truths.

No. You're not getting the point I just made to you.

pothead

2024-11-23 22:06:55 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
your use of social media ebonics.

I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)

So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.

Not with Apple products.
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.

I've run Linux on my home systems since 1995, maybe 1997 I dunno.
Like most I've tried various distributions but at some point settled on
Debian based ones because they tend to have a lot of support and tend
to not break things with updates.
Over the years at least for me Linux has had it's ups and downs. And since
I am a pure end user thus not interested in compiling kernels and such.
Never even tried.
I've never understood the OS wars? To me they make no sense and a case can
be made for any OS depending upon the desires and needs.
Pick your poison and have fun using it.

--
pothead

"Ding Dong The Witch Is Gone"
"Which Old Witch?"
"The Kamala Harris Witch. Of Course!"

Alan

2024-11-23 22:13:16 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
your use of social media ebonics.

I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)

So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.

Not with Apple products.
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.

And you can certainly run a modern Linux distro without ever compiling a
kernel...

...but you will be giving up a lot in terms of the width and depth of
software that is available to you.

Some people are fine with that tradeoff.

Many, many times more are not.

I can only tell you what I've observed in 40 years of using, selling and
supporting personal computers:

People who use Apple products are almost universally satisfied with them
and continue to buy the over and over once they've started using them.

I can't tell you how many hundreds of people I've either sold a Mac (I
worked selling Apple gear before the iPhone) or recommended to get a
back, but I can tell you the exact total of that group that decided they
wanted to go back to using Windows:

2

I entered this conversation because someone suggested Apple is the
"enemy"...

...and that's just so much bullshit.

pothead

2024-11-23 22:36:10 UTC

Post by Joel
Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
your use of social media ebonics.

I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)

So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
necessary.
There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
distributor-using cars, too.
But most people want to just get in and drive.

Not with Apple products.
Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.

And you can certainly run a modern Linux distro without ever compiling a
kernel...

Indeed.

Post by Alan
...but you will be giving up a lot in terms of the width and depth of
software that is available to you.

Again it depends upon the needs.
Multimedia for sure. Various diagnostic systems for autos and so forth, yes.
Mac has the same issues though. Not for multimedia obviously but other applications for
sure. Windows owns the software variety for end users.

Post by Alan
Some people are fine with that tradeoff.

Agreed.

Post by Alan
Many, many times more are not.

Agreed.
I have been asked about Linux a zillion times over the years and my
first and usually only question is "what are your needs and expectations?".
IMHO that alone determines the OS to run.

Post by Alan
I can only tell you what I've observed in 40 years of using, selling and

Over 40 years myself.
Not selling though but using and supporting, to a lesser degree.

Post by Alan
People who use Apple products are almost universally satisfied with them
and continue to buy the over and over once they've started using them.

I look at that one with reservation.
I compare it to people who purchase an expensive car say a Range Rover or
high end Audi.
Both brands are notoriously unreliable, especially Land Rover, but the
people who get stuck with once of those overpriced pieces of junk are
usually, not always, but usually reluctant to admit they overpaid and
got taken as their car spends a lot of time in the shop.

Apple is like any boutique item.
The fanboy factor is huge.

That being said, Apple products do what they claim, work very well and
have an excellent resale value.
I've sold a couple of iPhones on various sites and recouped a large percentage
of my cost.
I've done the same with high end Android and it's not even close.
So that's a consideration.

There is also Applecare which is excellent.

Post by Alan
I can't tell you how many hundreds of people I've either sold a Mac (I
worked selling Apple gear before the iPhone) or recommended to get a
back, but I can tell you the exact total of that group that decided they
2

Well my son, the dedicated Machead is one.
He had to go back to Windows after the simulations and number crunching
he does for commercial real estate appraisal and evaluation would not run
accurately under the Mac version of Excel.
Granted these are insanely complex and pull data from all over the web.
He still uses his Mac for personal stuff but has a high end Windows machine for work.

Apple users do tend to be satisfied and loyal though.
I agree.

Post by Alan
I entered this conversation because someone suggested Apple is the
"enemy"...
...and that's just so much bullshit.

No company is the "enemy".
Free market.
Choose what works best for you.

--
pothead

"Ding Dong The Witch Is Gone"
"Which Old Witch?"
"The Kamala Harris Witch. Of Course!"

Andrew

2024-11-23 23:42:37 UTC

Post by pothead
I've never understood the OS wars? To me they make no sense and a case can
be made for any OS depending upon the desires and needs.
Pick your poison and have fun using it.

I've used all the common consumer operating systems, and I agree that the
Linux and Windows and Android systems give the user choice & functionality.

Most of what you refer to as "OS wars" are really from the Apple trolls
spewing (brilliant) Apple propaganda such as "it just works" lies.

Try to get a system firewall to "just work" on an iOS device. It just
doesn't work. Same with Wi-Fi & cellular debugging tools. They don't work.

Try to plug in your wired headphones to the expensive Apple gear.
Again, it stands no chance of working.

Interestingly, since I test things as a hobby, try NOT logging into your
Apple gear while using it every day - and two years later - like clockwork
Apple will unilaterally *brick* your iOS device - where you *must* waltz
into an Apple store to shows your government issue ID just to unlock it.
<Loading Image...

> Apple requires frequent login
<Loading Image...

> Some things still work
<Loading Image...

> But the walled garden stops

The Apple trolls don't know any of this because they only know what Apple's
(rather brilliant) marketing feeds them to know (i.e., Apple propaganda).

Ask the next Apple troll you run into if they're logging into the Cupertino
mainframe servers every single day of their lives and they'll say "no".

This is a key reason why the "OS wars" (as you call them) occur.

It's like trying to tell a Russian that Ukraine did NOT attack them.
All the Apple trolls know is the (brilliant) propaganda Apple feeds them.

These ignorant Apple trolls don't actually know anything about anything.
That's why they dispute everything about every OS - out of sheer ignorance.

Ask them if they're NOT logging into Apple's mainframes every day.
They don't realize their Apple device is nothing more than a dumb terminal.

pothead

2024-11-24 01:49:13 UTC

Post by pothead
I've never understood the OS wars? To me they make no sense and a case can
be made for any OS depending upon the desires and needs.
Pick your poison and have fun using it.

I've used all the common consumer operating systems, and I agree that the
Linux and Windows and Android systems give the user choice & functionality.

Same.

Post by Andrew
Most of what you refer to as "OS wars" are really from the Apple trolls
spewing (brilliant) Apple propaganda such as "it just works" lies.

Every OS has issues.
There is no exception.

Post by Andrew
Try to get a system firewall to "just work" on an iOS device. It just
doesn't work. Same with Wi-Fi & cellular debugging tools. They don't work.

The walled garden.
Do it as Apple want or go away.

Post by Andrew
Try to plug in your wired headphones to the expensive Apple gear.
Again, it stands no chance of working.

Apple keeps redefining connectivity to stay one step ahead of the
competition.
It's getting insane.

Post by Andrew
Interestingly, since I test things as a hobby, try NOT logging into your
Apple gear while using it every day - and two years later - like clockwork
Apple will unilaterally *brick* your iOS device - where you *must* waltz
into an Apple store to shows your government issue ID just to unlock it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/FHKHm9kD/locked01.jpg> Apple requires frequent login
<https://i.postimg.cc/WzjsyjPm/locked02.jpg> Some things still work
<https://i.postimg.cc/MGC6yVPF/locked03.jpg> But the walled garden stops

I have not seen this one on my watch and iPhone but I'll take your word for it.

Post by Andrew
The Apple trolls don't know any of this because they only know what Apple's
(rather brilliant) marketing feeds them to know (i.e., Apple propaganda).

Sure.
How else can they get drones camping out in front of Apple stores to get the
latest release?
It's all hype.

Post by Andrew
Ask the next Apple troll you run into if they're logging into the Cupertino
mainframe servers every single day of their lives and they'll say "no".

I doubt they even know if they are.

Post by Andrew
This is a key reason why the "OS wars" (as you call them) occur.
It's like trying to tell a Russian that Ukraine did NOT attack them.
All the Apple trolls know is the (brilliant) propaganda Apple feeds them.
These ignorant Apple trolls don't actually know anything about anything.
That's why they dispute everything about every OS - out of sheer ignorance.
Ask them if they're NOT logging into Apple's mainframes every day.
They don't realize their Apple device is nothing more than a dumb terminal.

Apple users are end user based to the extreme.
They want to unbox their shiny new machine and have it on the net
in 10 minutes or less and honestly Apple does offer that.

--
pothead

"Ding Dong The Witch Is Gone"
"Which Old Witch?"
"The Kamala Harris Witch. Of Course!"

Alan

2024-11-24 02:18:20 UTC

Post by pothead
I've never understood the OS wars? To me they make no sense and a case can
be made for any OS depending upon the desires and needs.
Pick your poison and have fun using it.

I've used all the common consumer operating systems, and I agree that the
Linux and Windows and Android systems give the user choice & functionality.

Same.

Post by Andrew
Most of what you refer to as "OS wars" are really from the Apple trolls
spewing (brilliant) Apple propaganda such as "it just works" lies.

Every OS has issues.
There is no exception.

Post by Andrew
Try to get a system firewall to "just work" on an iOS device. It just
doesn't work. Same with Wi-Fi & cellular debugging tools. They don't work.

The walled garden.
Do it as Apple want or go away.

Certainly, iOS is limited in some areas.

But the very locked-down nature of iOS was very important to its success.

Post by Andrew
Try to plug in your wired headphones to the expensive Apple gear.
Again, it stands no chance of working.

Apple keeps redefining connectivity to stay one step ahead of the
competition.
It's getting insane.

You can plug your wired headphones into your Apple products.

I have not seen this one on my watch and iPhone but I'll take your word for it.

I wouldn't.

Post by Andrew
The Apple trolls don't know any of this because they only know what Apple's
(rather brilliant) marketing feeds them to know (i.e., Apple propaganda).

Sure.
How else can they get drones camping out in front of Apple stores to get the
latest release?
It's all hype.

Or it's people who've really enjoyed the experience they had with the
products that they've previously used.

Are people who "camp out" to get tickets to their favourite bands "drones"?

Post by Andrew
Ask the next Apple troll you run into if they're logging into the Cupertino
mainframe servers every single day of their lives and they'll say "no".

I doubt they even know if they are.

Irrelevant.

The iOS devices work fine even if you don't log in "every single day".

Apple users are end user based to the extreme.

As they should be.

Post by pothead
They want to unbox their shiny new machine and have it on the net
in 10 minutes or less and honestly Apple does offer that.

Why would that be a bad thing?

Andrew

2024-11-24 02:52:12 UTC

Post by Andrew
I've used all the common consumer operating systems, and I agree that the
Linux and Windows and Android systems give the user choice & functionality.

Same.

Good. As I own a half dozen iPhones & iPads and as many Androids, plus
Windows and Linux (generally set up as dual boot) and I've "owned" macs but
you do not want to hear me discuss macOS for two reasons, only one of which
is that I have nothing good to say about it - but the other is that I admit
I haven't touched a mac in about two or three years so they may have
changed a lot since I last wanted to throw it out the fifth-floor window.

Post by Andrew
Most of what you refer to as "OS wars" are really from the Apple trolls
spewing (brilliant) Apple propaganda such as "it just works" lies.

Every OS has issues.
There is no exception.

This is true. But there's a HUGE DIFFERENCE in the user base for each.

In general... Linux users know what it is that sits on their desk.
a. They're competent.
b. Particularly the Linux users who post to Linux Usenet newsgroups.

Windows users fall into two fundamental categories
a. Users who are competent (which is most who post to Usenet ngs).
b. But there are far more Windows users who are technically clueless.

Apple users are strange people because they buy based on herd mentality.
a. Almost zero Apple users are competent for that very reason
b. Certanily none of the Apple trolls who post to Usenet are competent
c. You can tell because they only spew baseless Apple propaganda

While Apple propaganda is much like Russian propaganda where only the
ignorant parrot it back - you'll find the Apple troll who posts to Usenet
is like the Russian troll who claims Nazi Banderites are why they're in
Ukraine.

My point is very clear that the Apple troll who posts to Usenet is not a
normal person - they're very strange herd animals who are technically
incompetent - but they're so Dunning Kruger Mount Stupid that they don't
even realize how incompetent they are because they KNOW all the Apple
propaganda - so they spit it out.

Hence... the "OS Wars" someone spoke of occur because these Apple trolls
are so technically ignorant they don't even know that Apple only fully
supports a single release - and that Apple has NEVER fully supported more
than a single release.

They don't know Apple iPhones have the smallest batteries in the industry
such that the EU told Apple that next year Apple can no longer sell an
iPhone in the EU that doesn't meet modern battery lifetime specifications.

Which almost all of Apple's current iPhones do NOT meet, by the way.

These Apple users are so clueless that they parrot Apple propaganda that
the iPhone is "safer" and yet they're clueless that no phone has more
zero-day holes than the iPhone, nor more active exploits than the iPhone.

All of this comes as a surprise to the Apple trolls who post to Usenet
simply because they are all completely incompetent technically.

That's what separates the Apple posters from the normal adults on this ng.

Post by Andrew
Try to get a system firewall to "just work" on an iOS device. It just
doesn't work. Same with Wi-Fi & cellular debugging tools. They don't work.

The walled garden.
Do it as Apple want or go away.

It's even worse than that since most people don't realize that the iDevice
is a "dumb terminal" since all of the nice things the Apple lovers love
about the walled garden happen on Cupertino mainframe servers.

Without logging into the mainframe, the Apple dumb terminal devices can't
do anything (they can't even message the way they like or install apps).

No other common consumer operating system requires you to log into their OS
vendor's mainframes every moment of your life just to use the device.

Just Apple.

Post by Andrew
Try to plug in your wired headphones to the expensive Apple gear.
Again, it stands no chance of working.

Apple keeps redefining connectivity to stay one step ahead of the
competition.
It's getting insane.

Apple *removed* the 3.5mm jack to limit the users' choice which in the end
makes lots of money for Apple because now the users have to figure out how
to buy that lost functionality back (often using Apple products to do it).

Apple's business stratey has always been to remove functionality so that
you're restricted in your choices in how you have to buy it back.

Witness Apple never putting in the portable memory slot where if you needed
an extra 128GB of memory, you have to buy it back somehow - but you can't
just pop in a cheap $25 128GB expansion card because Apple negates the
cheap choice. Only the expensive choices remain - which is Apple's
strategy.

Note how much money Apple made selling wireless chargers just by removing
the PD charger from the box - telling people it's "green" for them to have
to buy a wireless or wired) PD charger from Apple (or Amazon) instead of
getting it from the box like every other company did until Apple removed
that functionality from the box.

Apple removes functionality so that you have to buy it back, preferably
from Apple (where they'll give you all the advice you need to do that).

I have not seen this one on my watch and iPhone but I'll take your word for it.

Oh, I've tested it. For years. I have plenty of iOS devices in front of me,
as I'm running the test on a new iPad as we speak. Like clockwork, after
two years of setting up an Apple ID and NOT logging in again - Apple will
unilaterally brick your device until you physically go into an Apple store
and provide your government issue ID and prove it's you.

How's that for Apple's "privacy" propaganda?

Speaking of Apple's privacy propaganda, are you aware that it is impossible
(as of February 2023) to create a new Apple ID without setting up 2FV with
Apple and that this 2FV is forever. Yup. Forever. Only Apple forces that.

Nobody else takes your privacy like Apple does - but notice that the
(brilliant) Apple propaganda never mentions that this is a fact.

You can't even *re-use* an older phone number without providing Apple with
your identity - which proves Apple's privacy propaganda is a falsity.
*Piece of shit iOS has absolutely zero privacy for God's sake*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=17771&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#17771>

Don't believe me? Look at this proof taken just last week for you:
<Loading Image...

>
<Loading Image...

>

The Apple trolls are Alan Browne, Jolly Roger, Alan Baker, Alan Browne,
Chris, Haemactylus, Joerg Lorenz, Your Name, et al. who know nothing about
Apple products.

None of them realize only Apple forces you to trade your privacy for the
privilege of installing apps.
<Loading Image...

> iPadOS 16.3.1 is available
<Loading Image...

> 16.3.1 Update Requested
<Loading Image...

> About 10 minutes remaining
<Loading Image...

> Preparing Update
<Loading Image...

> Downloaded
<Loading Image...

> Finish Setting Up iPad
<Loading Image...

> More for your iPad
<Loading Image...

> Update Apple ID Settings
<Loading Image...

> iPadOS Version 16.3.1
<Loading Image...

> Sign in to iCloud
<Loading Image...

> Finished Setting up iPad
<Loading Image...

> Verifying update...

Microsoft doesn't do that.
Neither does Google.

Just Apple.

That's a fact.

Post by Andrew
The Apple trolls don't know any of this because they only know what Apple's
(rather brilliant) marketing feeds them to know (i.e., Apple propaganda).

Sure.
How else can they get drones camping out in front of Apple stores to get the
latest release?
It's all hype.

Understood. Not only are the herd animals camping out to get the "new"
device, but notice they can't wait to ditch their "old" device too!

That's why the Apple fools always scream out in glee how much "money they
made" on their tradein - the Apple user pays two to three times the value.

Post by Andrew
Ask the next Apple troll you run into if they're logging into the Cupertino
mainframe servers every single day of their lives and they'll say "no".

I doubt they even know if they are.

Agreed. They have no idea because they've never set up an iPhone without an
Apple ID - and I have - so I know how to do that and how brain dead it is.

Do you know you can't even set up an iPad WITHOUT the Internet?
<Loading Image...

>
<Loading Image...

>

No other common consumer OS requires the Internet just to boot it up.
Just Apple.

Apple users are end user based to the extreme.
They want to unbox their shiny new machine and have it on the net
in 10 minutes or less and honestly Apple does offer that.

I don't mind that an Apple user is technically incompetent.
What I mind are the Apple trolls who post here are technically incompetent.

I've studied them since I've been on Usenet for decades and since they're
not like normal people. They're very strange. Almost like religious
zealots. They fit into five categories based on the way they post to
Usenet.

1. Jolly Roger <===> Lewis
2. Alan Baker <===> Joerg Lorenz
3. Haemactylus <===> Your Name <===> -hh
4. Alan Browne <===> Chris
5. nospam <===> he is in a category of his own

While they're different, all share common traits (such as being herd
animals who defend Apple products to the death, no matter what).

The main three traits they all share though are:
a. None of them owns an IQ even close to normal
b. Hence, none of them have greater than a 12th grade education
c. And as a result, they're so ignorant they know nothing about anything

*Q: Why do Apple trolls know nothing about anything?*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=17675&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#17675>

They dispute every fact about Apple out of their own ignorance.
If they don't know the fact - they immediately claim it's wrong.

Because Apple didn't feed that fact to them.
Who is that stupid?

I've never met, in the flesh, anyone in my life, as stupid as Apple trolls
are. But when people talk of "OS Wars", often its these Apple trolls.

Andrew

2024-11-23 23:20:26 UTC

Post by Andrew
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.

Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

I think they're all the "enemy" to some degree, depending on what you care
about, specifically with respect to capability & full hotfix support.

Since I came from the corporate world (Redhat for the engineers, MS Windows
for everyone who did anything & Apple for the marcomms ladies to draw with)
I started with Centos (closest free Linux to Redhat) but then moved to
Ubuntu (which was the Unity desktop abomination in those days long ago).

Linux does everything you need to do, but it just doesn't have the immense
software choice that Microsoft enjoys - nor is any given release patched
for, oh, how long has Microsoft Windows been both free & fully supported?

Let's see, my 2009 desktop started as Windows Vista, where I skipped
Windows 8 (as I recall) & upgraded for free to Windows 10 (as I recall).

Since Windows 10 is fully supported for one more year, that's full hotfix
support for about 14 years for me, but Vista released in 2007 so that's
more than a 1-1/2 decades of full hotfix support (which is not the same as
support - which I know you know - but the Apple trolls never understand
anything outside of a slick (but brilliant) Apple marketing brochure.

Linux is effectively supported longer than 1-1/2 decades, but you can't
complain about Microsoft's full hotfix support when it's that long.

Samsung and Google recently published their full hotfix support length.
It's 7 years and up to 7 releases for both of them.

Apple's full hotfix support is stated as only five years by Apple.
And Apple has never fully supported more than one release in its history.

Those are just facts.

What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much
that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the
Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.

Joel

2024-11-23 23:49:35 UTC

Post by Andrew
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.

Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

I think they're all the "enemy" to some degree, depending on what you care
about, specifically with respect to capability & full hotfix support.
Since I came from the corporate world (Redhat for the engineers, MS Windows
for everyone who did anything & Apple for the marcomms ladies to draw with)
I started with Centos (closest free Linux to Redhat) but then moved to
Ubuntu (which was the Unity desktop abomination in those days long ago).
Linux does everything you need to do, but it just doesn't have the immense
software choice that Microsoft enjoys - nor is any given release patched
for, oh, how long has Microsoft Windows been both free & fully supported?
Let's see, my 2009 desktop started as Windows Vista, where I skipped
Windows 8 (as I recall) & upgraded for free to Windows 10 (as I recall).
Since Windows 10 is fully supported for one more year, that's full hotfix
support for about 14 years for me, but Vista released in 2007 so that's
more than a 1-1/2 decades of full hotfix support (which is not the same as
support - which I know you know - but the Apple trolls never understand
anything outside of a slick (but brilliant) Apple marketing brochure.
Linux is effectively supported longer than 1-1/2 decades, but you can't
complain about Microsoft's full hotfix support when it's that long.
Samsung and Google recently published their full hotfix support length.
It's 7 years and up to 7 releases for both of them.
Apple's full hotfix support is stated as only five years by Apple.
And Apple has never fully supported more than one release in its history.
Those are just facts.
What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much
that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the
Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.

You might get your "hotfixes" from M$, but not real support of your
ancient computer, anything that came with Vista is going to have
painfully slow storage, SATA SSDs are not the miracle that NVMe ones
are, when they're connected to ancient motherboards, or even in
general. M$ doesn't care about you, they want you to buy a whole new
system every few years. My computer was ideal for the Windows 11
upgrade, in 2021, but it would suck if I still had it today, which is
why I've been on Linux for a year.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-24 00:04:00 UTC

Post by Andrew
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.

Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

I think they're all the "enemy" to some degree, depending on what you care
about, specifically with respect to capability & full hotfix support.
Since I came from the corporate world (Redhat for the engineers, MS Windows
for everyone who did anything & Apple for the marcomms ladies to draw with)
I started with Centos (closest free Linux to Redhat) but then moved to
Ubuntu (which was the Unity desktop abomination in those days long ago).
Linux does everything you need to do, but it just doesn't have the immense
software choice that Microsoft enjoys - nor is any given release patched
for, oh, how long has Microsoft Windows been both free & fully supported?
Let's see, my 2009 desktop started as Windows Vista, where I skipped
Windows 8 (as I recall) & upgraded for free to Windows 10 (as I recall).
Since Windows 10 is fully supported for one more year, that's full hotfix
support for about 14 years for me, but Vista released in 2007 so that's
more than a 1-1/2 decades of full hotfix support (which is not the same as
support - which I know you know - but the Apple trolls never understand
anything outside of a slick (but brilliant) Apple marketing brochure.
Linux is effectively supported longer than 1-1/2 decades, but you can't
complain about Microsoft's full hotfix support when it's that long.
Samsung and Google recently published their full hotfix support length.
It's 7 years and up to 7 releases for both of them.
Apple's full hotfix support is stated as only five years by Apple.
And Apple has never fully supported more than one release in its history.
Those are just facts.
What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much
that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the
Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.

My previous Mac was a 2015 13" MacBook Pro.

<https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-i7-3.1-13-early-2015-retina-display-specs.html>

It shipped with Mac OS X 10.10(.2) Yosemite; released in October 2014.

It was supported up until macOS 12 Monterery; released in October 2021
and which continues to receive updates as recently as July 2024.

It had 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD, and with the exception of reduced
battery life, worked very well for me over the years.

And to address one point you made specifically:

Why in the hell would Microsoft care if you bought a "whole new system
every few years"?

Joel

2024-11-24 00:31:20 UTC

Post by Andrew
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.

Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

I think they're all the "enemy" to some degree, depending on what you care
about, specifically with respect to capability & full hotfix support.
Since I came from the corporate world (Redhat for the engineers, MS Windows
for everyone who did anything & Apple for the marcomms ladies to draw with)
I started with Centos (closest free Linux to Redhat) but then moved to
Ubuntu (which was the Unity desktop abomination in those days long ago).
Linux does everything you need to do, but it just doesn't have the immense
software choice that Microsoft enjoys - nor is any given release patched
for, oh, how long has Microsoft Windows been both free & fully supported?
Let's see, my 2009 desktop started as Windows Vista, where I skipped
Windows 8 (as I recall) & upgraded for free to Windows 10 (as I recall).
Since Windows 10 is fully supported for one more year, that's full hotfix
support for about 14 years for me, but Vista released in 2007 so that's
more than a 1-1/2 decades of full hotfix support (which is not the same as
support - which I know you know - but the Apple trolls never understand
anything outside of a slick (but brilliant) Apple marketing brochure.
Linux is effectively supported longer than 1-1/2 decades, but you can't
complain about Microsoft's full hotfix support when it's that long.
Samsung and Google recently published their full hotfix support length.
It's 7 years and up to 7 releases for both of them.
Apple's full hotfix support is stated as only five years by Apple.
And Apple has never fully supported more than one release in its history.
Those are just facts.
What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much
that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the
Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.

My previous Mac was a 2015 13" MacBook Pro.
<https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-i7-3.1-13-early-2015-retina-display-specs.html>
It shipped with Mac OS X 10.10(.2) Yosemite; released in October 2014.
It was supported up until macOS 12 Monterery; released in October 2021
and which continues to receive updates as recently as July 2024.
It had 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD, and with the exception of reduced
battery life, worked very well for me over the years.

If you bought that in 2014, it would have cost an incredible sum.

Post by Alan
Why in the hell would Microsoft care if you bought a "whole new system
every few years"?

Because that's what Winblows *is*, a marketing scheme for new
computers. Linux is the OS that supports hardware comprehensively.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

chrisv

2024-11-24 00:36:02 UTC

Post by Alan
My previous Mac was a 2015 13" MacBook Pro.
<https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-i7-3.1-13-early-2015-retina-display-specs.html>
It shipped with Mac OS X 10.10(.2) Yosemite; released in October 2014.
It was supported up until macOS 12 Monterery; released in October 2021
and which continues to receive updates as recently as July 2024.
It had 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD, and with the exception of reduced
battery life, worked very well for me over the years.

If you bought that in 2014, it would have cost an incredible sum.

For someone who, like Joel, has no job.

Alan

2024-11-24 00:37:50 UTC

Post by Andrew
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.

Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
that it's Unix.

I think they're all the "enemy" to some degree, depending on what you care
about, specifically with respect to capability & full hotfix support.
Since I came from the corporate world (Redhat for the engineers, MS Windows
for everyone who did anything & Apple for the marcomms ladies to draw with)
I started with Centos (closest free Linux to Redhat) but then moved to
Ubuntu (which was the Unity desktop abomination in those days long ago).
Linux does everything you need to do, but it just doesn't have the immense
software choice that Microsoft enjoys - nor is any given release patched
for, oh, how long has Microsoft Windows been both free & fully supported?
Let's see, my 2009 desktop started as Windows Vista, where I skipped
Windows 8 (as I recall) & upgraded for free to Windows 10 (as I recall).
Since Windows 10 is fully supported for one more year, that's full hotfix
support for about 14 years for me, but Vista released in 2007 so that's
more than a 1-1/2 decades of full hotfix support (which is not the same as
support - which I know you know - but the Apple trolls never understand
anything outside of a slick (but brilliant) Apple marketing brochure.
Linux is effectively supported longer than 1-1/2 decades, but you can't
complain about Microsoft's full hotfix support when it's that long.
Samsung and Google recently published their full hotfix support length.
It's 7 years and up to 7 releases for both of them.
Apple's full hotfix support is stated as only five years by Apple.
And Apple has never fully supported more than one release in its history.
Those are just facts.
What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much
that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the
Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.

My previous Mac was a 2015 13" MacBook Pro.
<https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-i7-3.1-13-early-2015-retina-display-specs.html>
It shipped with Mac OS X 10.10(.2) Yosemite; released in October 2014.
It was supported up until macOS 12 Monterery; released in October 2021
and which continues to receive updates as recently as July 2024.
It had 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD, and with the exception of reduced
battery life, worked very well for me over the years.

If you bought that in 2014, it would have cost an incredible sum.

Take a guess.

I easily saved anything I paid over and above even a Linux laptop in
reduced time and effort in support.

Post by Alan
Why in the hell would Microsoft care if you bought a "whole new system
every few years"?

Because that's what Winblows *is*, a marketing scheme for new
computers. Linux is the OS that supports hardware comprehensively.

And how would such a scheme benefit Microsoft?

Joel

2024-11-24 01:49:05 UTC

Post by Alan
Why in the hell would Microsoft care if you bought a "whole new system
every few years"?

Because that's what Winblows *is*, a marketing scheme for new
computers. Linux is the OS that supports hardware comprehensively.

And how would such a scheme benefit Microsoft?

They make money from Windows through OEMs, but also gain users of
Office and other software and services. I'm not talking out of my
ass, I ran Win10 on my old computer, and saw how it had metamorphosed.
The very same USB media I used to initially install on my new
computer, but two very different results, in 2021.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-24 02:01:26 UTC

Post by Alan
Why in the hell would Microsoft care if you bought a "whole new system
every few years"?

Because that's what Winblows *is*, a marketing scheme for new
computers. Linux is the OS that supports hardware comprehensively.

And how would such a scheme benefit Microsoft?

They make money from Windows through OEMs, but also gain users of

Trivial amounts perhaps.

Post by Joel
Office and other software and services. I'm not talking out of my

No. A user getting "whole new system" doesn't result in any gain.

Post by Joel
ass, I ran Win10 on my old computer, and saw how it had metamorphosed.

So you have a personal anecdote and nothing more.

Got it.

Post by Joel
The very same USB media I used to initially install on my new
computer, but two very different results, in 2021.

Joel

2024-11-24 02:14:19 UTC

Post by Alan
Why in the hell would Microsoft care if you bought a "whole new system
every few years"?

Because that's what Winblows *is*, a marketing scheme for new
computers. Linux is the OS that supports hardware comprehensively.

And how would such a scheme benefit Microsoft?

They make money from Windows through OEMs, but also gain users of

Trivial amounts perhaps.

I wouldn't call it their primary revenue stream, yeah.

Post by Joel
Office and other software and services. I'm not talking out of my

No. A user getting "whole new system" doesn't result in any gain.

Sure it does, they get newer versions of software, too.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-24 02:20:51 UTC

Post by Alan
Why in the hell would Microsoft care if you bought a "whole new system
every few years"?

Because that's what Winblows *is*, a marketing scheme for new
computers. Linux is the OS that supports hardware comprehensively.

And how would such a scheme benefit Microsoft?

They make money from Windows through OEMs, but also gain users of

Trivial amounts perhaps.

I wouldn't call it their primary revenue stream, yeah.

Post by Joel
Office and other software and services. I'm not talking out of my

No. A user getting "whole new system" doesn't result in any gain.

Sure it does, they get newer versions of software, too.

You need to reexamine who Microsoft currently offers it's software and
services.

Andrew

2024-11-24 00:19:16 UTC

Post by Andrew
What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much
that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the
Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.

>

Why do you feel that system is "painfully slow" when I don't feel that?
What other command do you want me to run to screenshot my system hardware?

I'm curious since you know more than I do on hardware so I wish to learn.
Here's the Win+R > msinfo32 results which I screenshot for you also.
<Loading Image...

>

Would you kindly take a look and let me know why you think it won't run
Windows 10 "just fine" (where I know it's no longer a powerhouse PC)?

Thanks! I love to learn from others who know more than I do.

Joel

2024-11-24 01:25:56 UTC

Hi Joel,
I'm curious why you say that given my 2009 PC works great on Windows 10.
but I defer to your greater knowledge level so I'd like to ask for advice.
What commands do you want me to run to display my system for you now?
And when you see my "ancient" system from 2009, what's wrong with it?
AMD Phenom II X4 810 Processor 2.6GHz 16GB RAM
My "storage" has been replaced long ago but it's a normal disc drive.
My graphics card has also been replaced. And a memory stick went bad.
Other than that, the system is original. It works fine for me in Win10.
Why would you say my system does not run fine when I think it does.
Maybe we're looking at different metrics?
I'm NOT saying it's a powerhouse - but it runs Windows 10 just fine.
Doesn't it?
What's wrong with it in your opinion that would make Win10 NOT run fine?
I just ran Win+I and screenshotted my "system" to post it below for you.
<https://i.postimg.cc/t4P7fZZg/system01.jpg>
Why do you feel that system is "painfully slow" when I don't feel that?
What other command do you want me to run to screenshot my system hardware?
I'm curious since you know more than I do on hardware so I wish to learn.
Here's the Win+R > msinfo32 results which I screenshot for you also.
<https://i.postimg.cc/63gpYnVz/system02.jpg>
Would you kindly take a look and let me know why you think it won't run
Windows 10 "just fine" (where I know it's no longer a powerhouse PC)?
Thanks! I love to learn from others who know more than I do.

This is interesting, actually, because your system is not unlike my
previous one, a four-core four-thread CPU, with up to 16 GB RAM. I
would wager that your system would perform better under Linux, than
Win10, but if you are satisfied with what you have, I understand.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

-hh

2024-11-23 18:58:31 UTC

Post by Andrew
As I said, my desktop is from 2009 and it runs Windows 10 just fine.
This is well known information as I've posted using it for years.

You have low standards.

It merely depends on what & where one chooses to make a priority.

Post by Joel
10 was great for my machine, built in 2021
with a 10th gen i5 CPU and NVMe storage, but 11 23H2 was already
getting more bloated than I care to use, and I've been solidly with
Linux for the last year. Win10 is a dead end, and the only salvation
for your ancient machine would be Linux.

You're not the only one who cut their teeth on punchcards & FORTRAN.

Post by Andrew
Linux is fine. What's really nice is awk, sed, grep, etc., though.
But at this point, I'm mostly using Microsoft Office & Paint.NET.

What tools are appropriate ultimately comes down to what tasks that one
is using the resources for: awk, sed, grep are fine for working on a
text file ... but just aren't useful at all to retouch a photo.

Post by Andrew
I used to dual boot, especially when I wanted to edit files that Windows
wouldn't let me edit but Ubunto would. Ubuntu is also great for working
with iOS devices since iFuse works around all of Apple's restrictions.

Sure ... if one really needs/wants to go mucking that deep into the guts
of a device's operations.

Post by Andrew
It's intereting but only we Linux folks understand iOS well.
The Apple trolls don't know anything about anything - least of all iOS.

There's a lot less than you're hoping for. Plus there's also if the use
case merits the need to know all of the minutia. For example, cars
today have a ton of microcontrollers: without knowledge of every last
function of each of them, how has this prevented you from driving a car?

Granted, this isn't to say that knowledge isn't never useful, but
everyone has to start somewhere, and its their use cases which will
determine how in-depth (& where) that knowledge will be value-added.

Post by Andrew
Anyway, the Apple owners have no clue their devices are completely
brain dead - they're just dumb terminals - logging into the Cupertino
server mainframes just to do the most basic of tasks like messaging.

Odd how much utility these devices still have without WiFi or cellular!

Post by Andrew
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.

Different product use cases on uptime requirements. Plus from an IT
Security perspective, isn't there also a trade-off here too?

-hh

Joel

2024-11-23 19:31:59 UTC

Post by Andrew
As I said, my desktop is from 2009 and it runs Windows 10 just fine.
This is well known information as I've posted using it for years.

You have low standards.

It merely depends on what & where one chooses to make a priority.

I saw 20H2 on my old machine, assembled in 2010, first gen i5. I
never even got to the point of installing it on an SSD for it, I had
given up on the idea for other reasons by then. Mint was great,
briefly, on the SSD, I had the system as refreshed as could be, maxed
at 16 GB RAM with a SATA SSD, great old machine for Linux, but Win10
would've sucked even with all that.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

-hh

2024-11-24 02:51:19 UTC

Post by Andrew
As I said, my desktop is from 2009 and it runs Windows 10 just fine.
This is well known information as I've posted using it for years.

You have low standards.

It merely depends on what & where one chooses to make a priority.

Okay, so how much did it cost you in 2010, and when did you abandon its
original configuration to switch it over to Mint?

That's enough to provide a baseline "value" metric on your IT costs.

-hh

Andrew

2024-11-23 23:55:13 UTC

Odd how much utility these devices still have without WiFi or cellular!

Hi -hh,

You do know I *test* what iOS can do *without* logging into Apple's
mainframe servers, right? I've been testing this for over two years.
*Apple finally let me log into my own iPad to use it (after years of holding my AppleID hostage)*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=8843&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#8843>

You must know that as we discussed many times that, on two different iOS
devices (I'm currently testing the third but it's brand new) by creating an
Apple ID and then after logging into it just once, I never logged back into
the Apple mainframe servers even though Apple bugs me every day ten times a
day to log into their Mainframe servers (even though I never logged out!).
*Re: What percentage of iOS just stops working the instant you don't sign into the Apple mothership tracking servers?*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=9988&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#9988>

You must know also that Apple iOS devices are brain dead without that login
(since all iOS devices are designed specifically to be dumb terminals).
*Setting up an iPad without an AppleID*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=16756&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#16756>

Despite the fact Apple trolls know nothing about Linux, Windows, or
Android, most of the Apple trolls know absolutely nothing about Apple.

The iOS device is brain dead like you can't believe if you do not log into
the walled garden every single moment of every single day of your life.

No other operating system *requires* you to log into the OS vendor's
mainframe servers just to get the basic application capability to work.

Just Apple.

Bill Powell

2024-11-23 23:58:45 UTC

Post by Andrew
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.

Different product use cases on uptime requirements. Plus from an IT
Security perspective, isn't there also a trade-off here too?

Why do iPhones always have more 0-day holes than Android if it's so secure?
https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog

-hh

2024-11-24 02:52:55 UTC

Post by Bill Powell

Post by Andrew
And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.

Different product use cases on uptime requirements. Plus from an IT
Security perspective, isn't there also a trade-off here too?

Why do iPhones always have more 0-day holes than Android if it's so secure?
https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog

Motivation/incentives play a big part:

“Because that's where the money is”
-Willie Sutton

-hh

chrisv

2024-11-23 20:13:33 UTC

Post by Andrew
As I said, my desktop is from 2009 and it runs Windows 10 just fine.
This is well known information as I've posted using it for years.

Sandy Bridge quad-core or better is still a decently-fast CPU, for
most things.

--
"the COLA fanboys seem to never grok [that choice has costs]." -
lying asshole "-hh", lying shamelessly

EndlessSept

2024-11-23 17:18:02 UTC

Post by Joel
Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current iterations
just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically,
even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're
kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW.

And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!

Linux advocates have fire, there's that.

They just never realized that Linux is not really a good desktop system
while it shines at controllers, database/server, IoT, Routers/Modems,
industrial, etc.

Chris Ahlstrom

2024-11-23 22:05:55 UTC

Post by Andrew
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.

And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO

There are far more shitty Windows apps.

Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure my
code runs on it as well.
--
Hit them biscuits with another touch of gravy,
Burn that sausage just a match or two more done.
Pour my black old coffee longer,
While that smell is gettin' stronger
A semi-meal ain't nuthin' much to want.

Loan me ten, I got a feelin' it'll save me,
With an ornery soul who don't shoot pool for fun,
If that coat'll fit you're wearin',
The Lord'll bless your sharin'
A semi-friend ain't nuthin' much to want.

And let me halfway fall in love,
For part of a lonely night,
With a semi-pretty woman in my arms.
Yes, I could halfway fall in deep--
Into a snugglin', lovin' heap,
With a semi-pretty woman in my arms.
-- Elroy Blunt

Alan

2024-11-23 22:14:49 UTC

Post by Andrew
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.

And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO

There are far more shitty Windows apps.

When there are far more apps overall, there are going to be more shitty
ones as well.

:-)

Post by Chris Ahlstrom
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure my
code runs on it as well.

Sure. And those who are technically versed and willing to spend more
time on setting up the system can use Linux and be happy.

Joel

2024-11-23 22:51:18 UTC

Post by Andrew
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.

And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO

There are far more shitty Windows apps.
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure my
code runs on it as well.

You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
Trump and guns. Nuff said.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 23:01:24 UTC

Post by Andrew
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.

And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO

There are far more shitty Windows apps.
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure my
code runs on it as well.

You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
Trump and guns. Nuff said.

Ad hominem.

That was always going to be next for you...

...right?

Klaus Schadenfreude

2024-11-23 23:10:43 UTC

Post by Andrew
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.

And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO

There are far more shitty Windows apps.
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure my
code runs on it as well.

You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
Trump and guns. Nuff said.

Ad hominem.
That was always going to be next for you...
...right?

Well there were death threats too, he learned his lesson.

Joel

2024-11-23 23:17:21 UTC

Post by Andrew
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.

And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO

There are far more shitty Windows apps.
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure my
code runs on it as well.

You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
Trump and guns. Nuff said.

Ad hominem.
That was always going to be next for you...
...right?

The ad hominem began with Klaus dissing Linux software.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-23 23:46:10 UTC

Post by Andrew
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.

And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO

There are far more shitty Windows apps.
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure my
code runs on it as well.

You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
Trump and guns. Nuff said.

Ad hominem.
That was always going to be next for you...
...right?

The ad hominem began with Klaus dissing Linux software.

Since "ad hominem" means "to the person" dissing Linux software (which
he didn't actually do) cannot be that.

Joel

2024-11-24 00:17:39 UTC

Post by Joel
You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
Trump and guns. Nuff said.

Ad hominem.
That was always going to be next for you...
...right?

The ad hominem began with Klaus dissing Linux software.

Since "ad hominem" means "to the person" dissing Linux software (which
he didn't actually do) cannot be that.

Ah, but there's an implied dis of people who use Linux, in the words
ostensibly about software. We're freaks, weirdoes, cheapskates,
losers, etc. And yet my computer easily meets the Winblows 11
requirements, I built it the same year it was released. Linux is just
better.
--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan

2024-11-24 00:21:13 UTC

Post by Joel
You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
Trump and guns. Nuff said.

Ad hominem.
That was always going to be next for you...
...right?

The ad hominem began with Klaus dissing Linux software.

Since "ad hominem" means "to the person" dissing Linux software (which
he didn't actually do) cannot be that.

Ummmm...nope.

No one said or implied anything like that.

"too Caucasian and stupid"

...that's an ad hominem.

Klaus Schadenfreude

2024-11-23 23:09:31 UTC

Post by Andrew
my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.

And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
ROFLMAO

There are far more shitty Windows apps.
Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure my
code runs on it as well.

You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid.

So you're a racist bigot in addition to being a mentally ill keyboard
commando.

No surprise there.

Alan

2024-11-22 20:55:44 UTC

Post by Warren
For a brief moment earlier this month, I thought an old acquaintance had
passed away. I was still groggy one morning when I checked my phone to
find a notification delivering the news. "Obituary shared,"ť the message
bluntly said, followed by his name. But when I opened my phone, I
learned that he was very much still alive. Apple's latest software
update was to blame: A new feature that uses AI to summarize iPhone
notifications had distorted the original text message. It wasn't my
acquaintance who had died, but a relative of his. That's whose obituary
I had received.
These notification summaries are perhaps the most visible part of Apple
Intelligence, the company's long-awaited suite of AI features, which
officially began to roll out last month. (It's compatible with only
certain devices.) We are living in push-notification hell, and Apple
Intelligence promises to collapse the incessant stream of notifications
into pithy recaps. Instead of setting your iPhone aside while you shower
and returning to nine texts, four emails, and two calendar alerts, you
can now return to a few brief Apple Intelligence summaries.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/11/apple-
intelligence-text-messages/680717/
Iphones are for stupid people.

No one forces you to use those synopses...

Andrew

2024-11-22 22:34:18 UTC

In any event, I'd really want to see a clear comparison laydown of just
what personal information is really required for using Vendor A vs B
before trying to condemn any one vendor.
For example, for setting up an Android phone, my understanding is that
you're required to provide a Google Account, and to get a Google Account
requires providing full name, phone#, date of birth, gender, & location.
Gosh, that sounds to be more obtrusive than Apple...is it?

For Windows, Microsoft would love for you to provide an account, for
reasons which are obvious, but there is no requirement for an account.

Not even on Windows 11 where Microsoft tried to copy Apple's model.

For Linux, I'm sure you're aware there is no requirement to create an
account, so again, no personal information is required of you to use it.

For Android, there is also no requirement whatsoever for an account.

Google has always allowed you to obtain software from the Google Play Store
WITHOUT setting up an account, and of course, anywhere else too.

I have over 900 apps installed on my Android phone, for example, most of
which are off the Google Play Store and I have no Google account set up.

It's only Apple that requires that account.

In reality, you do NOT have to set up an account on an Apple iOS device.
But... it won't be able to do anything.

At least a Windows, Linux & Android device works just fine without the
account, but the Apple device is even more crippled than normal with it.

Let me know if you have any other questions as I use them all personally.

max headroom

2024-11-23 17:10:56 UTC

Post by Warren
Iphones are for stupid people.

You must mean the type of people who cross-post off-topic news into unrelated
newsgroups.

Nomen Nescio

2024-11-23 18:05:12 UTC