Discussion:
Will History View Obama as the FDR of this century?
(too old to reply)
Too_Many_Tools
2012-11-29 03:56:13 UTC
Permalink
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.

And he has four more years to do much more....

TMT
MANFRED the heat seeking OBOE
2012-11-29 03:59:40 UTC
Permalink
Who could imagine so many clowns without a sense of humor?

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The majority of those who loosely identify themselves with the term
LIBeral are afraid to let THEMSELVES discover that what they really
advocate is STATISM. They do not want (nor could possibly actually
conscience) the full meaning of their goal; they want to keep all the
advantages and effects of Capitalism, while destroying the cause, and
they want to establish STATISM without its neccessary effects.

LIBs do not want to know (or admit) that they are
CHAMPIONS of DICTATORSHIP and SLAVERY.


LIBs. What Price their Vision.
---
LIBs plead for a Morality which holds COMPROMISE as its standard of
Value, making it possible to judge Virtue on the basis of the number of
Values which one is willing to Betray.
Paul Henderson
2012-12-02 21:07:14 UTC
Permalink
Neville Chamberlain was a conservative. Just like you!

Another stupid Rightist makes an ass out of himself.

Do you eat your own turds, or just throw them at the wall like the
rest of your fellow apes?
Too_Many_Tools
2012-11-29 04:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
LOL...history is written by the victors.

And you guys LOST!!!!


Laugh..laugh..laugh...

TMT
Dr. Fraud
2012-11-29 18:04:43 UTC
Permalink
In article <e9a2163c-9ac6-4ebf-8426-
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
retarded liberals.

Clinton's war that he started when he left office ran up the
debt, cocksucker.
Post by Too_Many_Tools
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
2012-11-29 18:16:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
LOL...while conservatives may want to bitch and rant the Truth
remains...Obama ROCKS!!!

TMT
deep
2012-11-29 19:50:38 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:56:13 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
He's going to be more like FDR for other reasons.
RD Sandman
2012-11-29 22:38:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by deep
On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:56:13 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
He's going to be more like FDR for other reasons.
He's in a wheelchair?
--
Sleep well, tonight.....

RD (The Sandman

If law school is so hard to get through....
how come there are so many lawyers?
Klaus Schadenfreude
2012-11-30 15:47:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by RD Sandman
Post by deep
On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:56:13 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
He's going to be more like FDR for other reasons.
He's in a wheelchair?
He's going to get us into a World War?
Robert Westergrom,1900 Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E
2012-11-30 15:53:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by RD Sandman
Post by deep
On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:56:13 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
He's going to be more like FDR for other reasons.
He's in a wheelchair?
He's going to get us into a World War?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Naaaahhh. O'Ears is too busy with his war on Republicans, war on the
wealthy and war on white people.
Gunner
2012-12-01 18:43:13 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 16:38:20 -0600, RD Sandman
Post by RD Sandman
Post by deep
On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:56:13 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
He's going to be more like FDR for other reasons.
He's in a wheelchair?
He is going to die of a gunshot wound to the head?

http://lovkap.blogspot.com/2011/04/did-fdr-commit-suicide-or-was-he.html


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
SaPeIsMa
2012-12-01 21:11:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 16:38:20 -0600, RD Sandman
Post by RD Sandman
Post by deep
On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:56:13 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
He's going to be more like FDR for other reasons.
He's in a wheelchair?
He is going to die of a gunshot wound to the head?
http://lovkap.blogspot.com/2011/04/did-fdr-commit-suicide-or-was-he.html
I like this part
"Everyone knows about the apparent suicide by Adolf Hitler
66 years earlier on 30th April, 1945,
however very little is known about another suicide/ assassination
that took place 66 years earlier on 12th April, 1945."

The poor boy clearly got stuck in a time warp to travel 66 years from April
12 1945 to April 30 1945.
Obviously we're dealing with someone from an alternate universe.
Gray Guest
2012-12-02 17:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by SaPeIsMa
Post by Gunner
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 16:38:20 -0600, RD Sandman
Post by RD Sandman
Post by deep
On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:56:13 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
He's going to be more like FDR for other reasons.
He's in a wheelchair?
He is going to die of a gunshot wound to the head?
http://lovkap.blogspot.com/2011/04/did-fdr-commit-suicide-or-was-he.html
I like this part
"Everyone knows about the apparent suicide by Adolf Hitler
66 years earlier on 30th April, 1945,
however very little is known about another suicide/ assassination
that took place 66 years earlier on 12th April, 1945."
The poor boy clearly got stuck in a time warp to travel 66 years from
April 12 1945 to April 30 1945.
Obviously we're dealing with someone from an alternate universe.
Hmm, for me it was the mention of Israel. The Jooz! The Jooz! The Jooz did
it!
--
Refusenik #1

Libs suffer from Eleutherophobia. And there is no cure.

Obama called the SEALs and THEY got bin Laden. When the SEALs called Obama,
THEY GOT DENIED. Fuck Obama
Gunner
2012-12-02 20:40:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by SaPeIsMa
Post by Gunner
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 16:38:20 -0600, RD Sandman
Post by RD Sandman
Post by deep
On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:56:13 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
He's going to be more like FDR for other reasons.
He's in a wheelchair?
He is going to die of a gunshot wound to the head?
http://lovkap.blogspot.com/2011/04/did-fdr-commit-suicide-or-was-he.html
I like this part
"Everyone knows about the apparent suicide by Adolf Hitler
66 years earlier on 30th April, 1945,
however very little is known about another suicide/ assassination
that took place 66 years earlier on 12th April, 1945."
The poor boy clearly got stuck in a time warp to travel 66 years from April
12 1945 to April 30 1945.
Obviously we're dealing with someone from an alternate universe.
Indeed.

<VBG>

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
F. George McDuffee
2012-11-29 20:23:43 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:56:13 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
===============

Compare and contrast FDR's first 100 days with Obama's first
1,460 days when he couldn't get a budget passed...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal
<snip>
During those 100 days of lawmaking, Congress granted every
request Roosevelt asked, and passed a few programs (such as
the FDIC to insure bank accounts) that he opposed. Ever
since, presidents have been judged against FDR for what they
accomplished in their first 100 days. Walter Lippmann
famously noted:

At the end of February we were a congeries of disorderly
panic-stricken mobs and factions. In the hundred days from
March to June we became again an organized nation confident
of our power to provide for our own security and to control
our own destiny.
<snip>

Something seems to have happened to the gene pool...
--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"
SaPeIsMa
2012-11-29 21:46:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by deep
On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 19:56:13 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
===============
Compare and contrast FDR's first 100 days with Obama's first
1,460 days when he couldn't get a budget passed...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal
<snip>
During those 100 days of lawmaking, Congress granted every
request Roosevelt asked, and passed a few programs (such as
the FDIC to insure bank accounts) that he opposed. Ever
since, presidents have been judged against FDR for what they
accomplished in their first 100 days. Walter Lippmann
At the end of February we were a congeries of disorderly
panic-stricken mobs and factions. In the hundred days from
March to June we became again an organized nation confident
of our power to provide for our own security and to control
our own destiny.
<snip>
Something seems to have happened to the gene pool...
yeah
The progressive retro-virus has been attacking the DNA
Tom Gardner
2012-11-30 01:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
It seems that it's a GREAT victory for all the people with the same
value system.
Gray Guest
2012-11-30 02:08:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Gardner
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
It seems that it's a GREAT victory for all the people with the same
value system.
And a terrible loss for hard working people.
--
Refusenik #1

Libs suffer from Eleutherophobia. And there is no cure.

Obama called the SEALs and THEY got bin Laden. When the SEALs called Obama,
THEY GOT DENIED. Fuck Obama
RogerN
2012-11-30 03:59:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gray Guest
Post by Tom Gardner
It seems that it's a GREAT victory for all the people with the same
value system.
And a terrible loss for hard working people.
--
Refusenik #1
A victory for Communism. Russia has been set free from communism, welcome
to the USSA.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/miller/121127

Pravda: Illiterate society reelected Obama

Throughout most of the twentieth century, the Pravda newspaper was roughly
the Russian equivalent of our leftist, state-controlled "mainstream" media,
publishing only regime-approved, Communist party line content. Since
undergoing a change in ownership in the early 1990s, it now offers warnings
against the communism that infected the former Soviet Union and caused the
deaths of millions of Russian citizens.

Despite the warnings of history and those who have lived under its iron
fist, communism has come to America, and the useful idiots who dumbly adore
the Communist-in-Chief, Barack Obama (or whatever his name is), are gladly
and stupidly drinking the kool-aid of ignorance in embracing that deadly and
dead-end ideology. Even the Russians can see this!

I read with sad amazement a couple of columns in the new, non-communist
Pravda online by Xavier Lerma. One is titled, "Obama's Soviet Mistake," and
the other, "The Reason Obama is President." Mr. Lerma clearly understands
the terrible place of tyranny America has chosen, and he knows the reasons
why. The reason Obama is President is the same reason I have repeatedly
declared here in my columns: America has turned away from God and to
self-worship and fleeting, carnal pleasures.

In "The Reason Obama is President," Mr. Lerma writes,

The reason America has the trillion dollar war monger Obama as president
today is because of immorality and materialism in America. President John
Adams once said,

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is
wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -October 11, 1798.

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible" -
George Washington.

... The revisionist historians have tried to "cover up" God himself by not
allowing recent generations to know that America was once a nation of
religious people. Now, over half the people in America are not well informed
and are willing to believe the spoon fed propaganda from the Democrats and
Republicans.

The Democrats and Republicans are notorious for wanting to stay in power.
Their worshipers get their education from TV and their friends. In the
future, after it becomes obvious that their plan failed, these "useful
idiots" will still blame Bush for the economy, overlook Obama as they
overlooked Clinton's mistakes or think their vote counts and they actually
have freedom while approving of wars overseas. Such people are the product
of America's decaying society whose reality has been warped by drugs and
other selfish pleasures. America has gradually become worse from the drugs,
rock and roll of the 60's and 70's to the drugs and rap music of today. The
communists won while Americans smoked pot.

He goes on to point out that the alienation of God from our society began in
the classroom and has spread to our televisions and other "entertainment"
outlets. This is quite true. When America ejected the Lord from our
education system, the dumbing-down of our younger generations began in
earnest. Today, we have kids that graduate high school (if they even
graduate) who can barely read, much less understand deeper concepts such as
the awful ramifications of a communist form of government, with its killing
of freedom, theft of private property rights and crippling taxation.

In his "Obama's Soviet Mistake" piece, Mr. Lerma shows that Obama is taking
the same communist road taken by the former Soviet Union, a road that
Vladimir Putin warns against taking. He also credits Obama's reelection to
an ignorant electorate, with some election fraud thrown in, as well.

In between conservative-sounding quotes from Vladimir Putin, Mr. Lerma
writes,

Recently, Obama has been re-elected for a 2nd term by an illiterate society
and he is ready to continue his lies of less taxes while he raises them. He
gives speeches of peace and love in the world while he promotes wars as he
did in Egypt, Libya and Syria. He plans his next war is with Iran as he
fires or demotes his generals who get in the way.

... Well, any normal individual understands that as true but liberalism is a
psychosis. O'bomber even keeps the war going along the Mexican border with
projects like "fast and furious" and there is still no sign of ending it. He
is a Communist without question promoting the Communist Manifesto without
calling it so. How shrewd he is in America. His cult of personality
mesmerizes those who cannot go beyond their ignorance. They will continue to
follow him like those fools who still praise Lenin and Stalin in Russia.
Obama's fools and Stalin's fools share the same drink of illusion.

... President Vladimir Putin could never have imagined anyone so ignorant or
so willing to destroy their people like Obama much less seeing millions vote
for someone like Obama. They read history in America don't they? Alas, the
schools in the U.S. were conquered by the Communists long ago and history
was revised thus paving the way for their Communist presidents. Obama has
bailed out those businesses that voted for him and increased the debt to
over 16 trillion with an ever increasing unemployment rate especially among
blacks and other minorities. All the while promoting his agenda.

Yes, ignorance and apathy have cost us dearly. Members of the Communist Left
know that citizen ignorance is a powerful tool, and so they have
aggressively promoted the stupidization of our younger generations. As long
as people lack knowledge, they can easily be ruled by smooth-talking
tyrants. Besides the requisite support of the black population that blindly
votes for Obama based on racism - because he is black - most Obama bumper
stickers can be spotted on the vehicles of younger, white morons who are
plainly products of our godless mis-education system.

Ignorance and godlessness go hand-in-hand. Those who know the Lord, who
follow His teachings in the Bible, understand the value of true knowledge.
Lack of knowledge is deadly destruction. Lack of respect for God's Word, and
the insight it provides those who seek it, has left us with a nation
crawling with entitlement-minded, godless sheep who are ripe for tyranny.

Despite the election result numbers, I do not believe the ignorant people
yet outnumber the informed in America, although most of the informed are of
the older generations. The Left has election and voter fraud down to a
science, and it may well be that conservatism will not be allowed to win
major elections anymore. The reports of election fraud since November 6th
are sickening, but it appears the Republicans are content to lie down and
take it, while they go off on misguided, introspective tangents about what
they should have done differently to get the women and minority votes. It is
stupidity in motion. If the election numbers are fraudulent, then
speculation on "why" we "lost" is dumb, because without the election fraud
tacked on, it is likely that we didn't lose!

Regardless, it remains that we are now saddled with the Communist federal
government we deserve. Those of us who know better have allowed our liberty
to lapse under decades of incremental thefts of our freedoms by an
ever-growing monster bureaucracy in Washington. We have ceded our freedom to
our Republican and Democrat masters in DC. Can we ever get it back? Not
without a return to God's principles found in the Bible. And, looking around
at the younger members of our degenerate, ignorant society, I am not holding
my breath that they will suddenly turn to the Lord, although a few of them
will, as God has called and chosen them.

Nevertheless, we will continue to pray for our nation and fight to rid our
government of the evil criminals - both Democrat and Republican - who have
commandeered it.

© Gina Miller
Tom Gardner
2012-11-30 04:20:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gray Guest
Post by Tom Gardner
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
It seems that it's a GREAT victory for all the people with the same
value system.
And a terrible loss for hard working people.
There are less of those people with that value system. Gee, does
anybody see where this is going?
RogerN
2012-11-30 04:05:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
It seems that it's a GREAT victory for all the people with the same value
system.
Here's what they say about him in Russia:

He is a Communist without question promoting the Communist Manifesto
without calling it so. How shrewd he is in America. His cult of personality
mesmerizes those who cannot go beyond their ignorance. They will continue to
follow him like those fools who still praise Lenin and Stalin in Russia.
Obama's fools and Stalin's fools share the same drink of illusion.

"Obama has been re-elected for a 2nd term by an illiterate society," Lerma
mused with wonder Nov. 19, "and he is ready to continue his lies of less
taxes while he raises them. He gives speeches of peace and love in the world
while he promotes wars as he did in Egypt, Libya and Syria. He plans his
next war is with Iran as he fires or demotes his generals who get in the
way."

O'bomber even keeps the war going along the Mexican border with projects
like "fast and furious" and there is still no sign of ending it.

"Any normal individual understands," Lerma could only conclude of Obama
voters - citing the president's bailout of "businesses that voted for him,"
the increase of America's "debt to over 16 trillion" and "an ever increasing
unemployment rate especially among blacks and other minorities" -- is that
"liberalism is a psychosis."

"President Vladimir Putin could never have imagined anyone so ignorant or so
willing to destroy their people like Obama," Lerma testified, "much less
seeing millions vote for someone like Obama."

While Lerma's opinion of Putin's benevolence as a leader is all well and
good, at least Obama hasn't - as CNN reminded Sunday -- imprisoned anyone
"for performing a song" that was "critical" of him - yet.

Lerma's perspective of Christianity in America however, was sadly quite
accurate.

The red, white and blue still flies happily but only in Russia. Russia
still has St George defeating the Dragon with the symbol of the cross on
its' flag. The ACLU and other atheist groups in America would never allow
the US flag with such religious symbols. Lawsuits a plenty against religious
freedom and expression in the land of the free. Christianity in the U.S. is
under attack as it was during the early period of the Soviet Union when
religious symbols were against the law.

Ironically, while liberals demand "separation of church and state" -- a
phrase that appears nowhere in the United States Constitution -- they seem
all too eager to establish "the state" as the nation's "church," with Obama
as its official deity.

Clearly, many truly believe that Obama will deliver them from their
oppressions.

But that's the thing about being a messiah.

One day, your devoted followers are waving palm fronds and singing your name
in the streets.
The next thing you know, they're demanding fulfillment of the many miracles
they expected you to deliver and screaming for your crucifixion.

How long will it take for Obama's "fools" to realize he is not their "lord
and savior," that "the moment when the rise of the oceans" will begin "to
slow and our planet" will begin "to heal" will not come by the wave of his
mighty hand? Only time will tell.

"Let's give American voters the benefit of the doubt," Lerma allowed in the
meantime, "and say it was all voter fraud and not ignorance or stupidity in
electing a man who does not even know what to do and refuses help from
Russia when there was an oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico."

The question is how long will the once "Land of the Free" remain the
United Socialist States of America?

"Suffer little children," Jesus said in Matthew 19:14, "and forbid them not,
to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven."

Unfortunately, with disciples like Foxx in the church of "fools" -- calling
upon America's "illiterate society" to "share the same drink of illusion"
that Obama is "God and our lord and savior" -- it may be as Lerma warned.

"Their suffering has only begun."
pyotr filipivich
2012-11-30 05:54:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tom Gardner
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
It seems that it's a GREAT victory for all the people with the same
value system.
If this is the improvement, then I wonder what sort of hell hole
things were like back in the Bush years.
--
pyotr filipivich
Most journalists these days couldn't investigate a missing chocolate cake
at a pre-school without a Democrat office holder telling them what to look for,
where, and why it is Geroge Bush's fault.
Gunner
2012-12-01 18:46:50 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 21:54:50 -0800, pyotr filipivich
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by Tom Gardner
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
It seems that it's a GREAT victory for all the people with the same
value system.
If this is the improvement, then I wonder what sort of hell hole
things were like back in the Bush years.
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.

But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.

Obama is such a wonderful president!!!
Post by pyotr filipivich
--
pyotr filipivich
Most journalists these days couldn't investigate a missing chocolate cake
at a pre-school without a Democrat office holder telling them what to look for,
where, and why it is Geroge Bush's fault.
The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
2012-12-02 11:47:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.

Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
Gunner
2012-12-02 20:51:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.
Really?
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
Really?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/survey-us-manufacturing-shrinks-third-month-141320637--finance.html

http://www.unions.org/home/news_detail.php?id=153


Manufacturing Jobs Leaving California

California is shedding manufacturing jobs faster than any other state
thanks to heavy regulation and high taxes, according to a new study.

A report out of the Milken Institute found that California has shed
nearly 80,000 manufacturing jobs over the past five years, as
neighboring states gained 62,000 jobs in the same sector.

The new numbers suggest that the federal government might want to
think twice before following in California's footsteps and instituting
sweeping regulations on the energy industry and elsewhere.

Otherwise the Golden State might not be the only one that's losing its
luster.

"Without manufacturing, where is the wealth going to be produced to
hire the accountants, to hire the attorneys, to pay the actors and
actresses?" said Tim Strelitz, president of California Metal-X.
Strelitz' company is one of the few heavy manufacturers left in
California, and it's half the size it was seven months ago.

Strelitz said that while California's manufacturing jobs are moving to
other states in North America, a lot of them are going straight to
Asia, "where they have no pollution controls and no health controls."

Christopher Thornberg, with Beacon Economics in Los Angeles, suggested
that efforts to rescue manufacturing jobs will have to wait as the
state grapples with its budgetary crisis.

"Can our business environment be improved? Absolutely. Would it be
good for the state? Absolutely. Can manufacturing be fostered?
Absolutely. Is this the time to be worrying about it, absolutely not,"
he said.

But American manufacturing has been on a steady decline for decades
and some economists say they fear that if the trend is not addressed
soon the U.S. industrial base will disappear for good.

After World War II, manufacturing accounted for one in every three
American jobs. Now it's one in 10 and falling.

The Milken report blamed California's exportation of manufacturing
jobs on heavy regulation, a hostile legislature and the highest tax
rate in the United States.

Milken economist Perry Wong said the state lost about 25 percent of
its employment base in manufacturing and about 33 percent in the
high-tech sector.

The Milken report suggested that California streamline its regulatory
procedures for manufacturers, launch a campaign to encourage state
workers to pursue careers in the manufacturing field and create a
network of training and research centers throughout the state for the
sector.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/moved-342887-companies-texas.html

http://www.nctimes.com/top-ten-reasons-why-companies-are-leaving-california/article_be130984-2fe2-52f1-b49e-3cc2e28fbe70.html

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/13/exodus-california-tax-revenue-plunges-by-22


Exodus: California Tax Revenue Plunges by 22%
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by Chriss W. Street 13 Mar 2012 246 post a comment

State Controller John Chaing continues to uphold the California Great
Seal Motto of “Eureka”, i.e., 'I have found it'. But what Chaing is
finding as Controller is that California’s economy as measured by tax
revenues is still tanking. Compared to last year, State tax
collections for February shriveled by $1.2 billion or 22%. The
deterioration is more than double the shocking $535 million reported
decline for last month. The cumulative fiscal year decline is $6.1
billion or down 11% versus this period in 2011.

While California Governor Brown promises strong economic growth is
just around the corner, Chaing proves that the best way for Sacramento
politicians to hurt the economy and thereby generate lower tax
revenue, is to have the highest tax rates in the nation.

California politicians seem delusional in their continued delusion
that high taxes have not savaged the State’s economy. Each month’s
disappointment is written off as due to some one-time event.

The State Controller’s office did acknowledge that higher than normal
tax refunds for February might have reduced the collection of some
personal income taxes. Given that 2012 has an extra day in February
for leap year, there might have been one day more of tax refunds sent
out. But the Controller’s report shows personal income tax collections
fell by $325 million, or 16% versus last year. Furthermore, leap year
would have added another day for retail sales and use tax collection,
but those revenues also fell during February-by an even larger $813
million, 25% decline from 2011.

The more likely reason tax collections continue falling is that
businesses and successful people are leaving California for the better
tax rates available in more pro-business states.

Derisively referred to as “Taxifornia” by the independent Pacific
Research Institute, California wins the booby prize for the highest
personal income taxes in the nation and higher sales tax rates than
all but four other states. Though Californians benefit from
Proposition 13 restrictions on how much their property tax can
increase in one year, the state still has the worst state tax burden
in the U.S.

Spectrum Locations Consultants recorded 254 California companies moved
some or all of their work and jobs out of state in 2011, 26% more than
in 2010 and five times as many as in 2009. According SLC President,
Joe Vranich: the “top ten reasons companies are leaving California: 1)
Poor rankings in surveys 2) More adversarial toward business 3)
Uncontrollable public spending 4) Unfriendly business climate 5)
Provable savings elsewhere 6) Most expensive business locations 7)
Unfriendly legal environment for business 8) Worst regulatory burden
9) Severe tax treatment 10) Unprecedented energy costs.

Vranich considers California the worst state in the nation to locate a
business and Los Angeles is considered the worst city to start a
business. Leaving Los Angeles for another surrounding county can save
businesses 20% of costs. Leaving the state for Texas can save up to
40% of costs. This probably explains why California lost 120,000 jobs
last year and Texas gained 130,000 jobs.

California Governor Jerry Brown’s answer to the State’s failing
economy and crumbling tax revenue is to place a $6 billion tax
increase initiative on the ballot to support K-12 public schools. He
promises to only “temporarily” raise personal income rates by 25% on
any of the rich folk who haven’t already left.

Recent statewide poll show that support for the measure has fallen
from 72% to 52% of likely voters since January. Democrats favor the
tax increase by 71%, while Republicans are opposed it by 65%. But
independent voter support is now down to only 49% favoring versus 41%
opposed as these swing voters begin to learn the initiative also
raises their sales taxes, and the initiative will also be available to
fund public safety realignment and freeing up dollars for "other
spending commitments."

According to Chaing, California has plenty of “other spending
commitments”:

“The State ended last fiscal year with a cash deficit of $8.2
billion. The combined current-year cash deficit stands at $21.6
billion. Those deficits are being covered with $15.2 billion of
internal borrowing (temporary loans from special funds) and $6.4
billion of external borrowing.”

When it comes to bankrupt California politics, the Great Seal provides
some good laughs. It was designed by U.S. Army Major Robert S.
Garnett, who became the first general to die in the Civil War. The
grizzly bear appears on the Seal to represent strength, but the last
grizzly was shot 90 years ago. The miner using his sluice box dredge
represents golden opportunity, but such mining became a crime as of
August of 2009. Sadly, the five ships that once represented the
state’s economic power now represent the relocation companies taking
that power away."


Are you really really sure you actually know what the fuck you are
babbling about? From the looks of it..you are stump stupid on the
subject.

Gunner



The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
2012-12-02 23:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.
Really?
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
Really?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/survey-us-manufacturing-shrinks-third-month-141320637--finance.html
http://www.unions.org/home/news_detail.php?id=153
Manufacturing Jobs Leaving California
California is shedding manufacturing jobs faster than any other state
thanks to heavy regulation and high taxes, according to a new study.
That is what I said.
The US is still the world leader in manufacturing.
It manufactures more than any other country.
However, the number of jobs in manufacturing
is shrinking. Only the most productive workers
are keeping their jobs.
Robert Westergrom,1900 Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E
2012-12-02 23:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.
Really?
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
Really?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/survey-us-manufacturing-shrinks-third-m...
http://www.unions.org/home/news_detail.php?id=153
Manufacturing Jobs Leaving California
California is shedding manufacturing jobs faster than any other state
thanks to heavy regulation and high taxes, according to a new study.
That is what I said.
The US is still the world leader in manufacturing.
It manufactures more than any other country.
However, the number of jobs in manufacturing
is shrinking. Only the most productive workers
are keeping their jobs.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You are one SERIOUSLY confused individual?? LSD flashbacks???
jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
2012-12-03 01:43:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Westergrom,1900 Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.
Really?
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
Really?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/survey-us-manufacturing-shrinks-third-m...
http://www.unions.org/home/news_detail.php?id=153
Manufacturing Jobs Leaving California
California is shedding manufacturing jobs faster than any other state
thanks to heavy regulation and high taxes, according to a new study.
That is what I said.
The US is still the world leader in manufacturing.
It manufactures more than any other country.
However, the number of jobs in manufacturing
is shrinking. Only the most productive workers
are keeping their jobs.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You are one SERIOUSLY confused individual?? LSD flashbacks???
What part of that statement are
you having trouble understanding?
Gunner
2012-12-03 04:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.
Really?
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
Really?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/survey-us-manufacturing-shrinks-third-month-141320637--finance.html
http://www.unions.org/home/news_detail.php?id=153
Manufacturing Jobs Leaving California
California is shedding manufacturing jobs faster than any other state
thanks to heavy regulation and high taxes, according to a new study.
That is what I said.
The US is still the world leader in manufacturing.
It manufactures more than any other country.
However, the number of jobs in manufacturing
is shrinking. Only the most productive workers
are keeping their jobs.
Ah...its manufactured more than the rest of the world since the 1930s.

That was NOT your claim and you know it.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
2012-12-03 12:19:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
California is shedding manufacturing jobs faster than any other state
thanks to heavy regulation and high taxes, according to a new study.
That is what I said.
The US is still the world leader in manufacturing.
It manufactures more than any other country.
However, the number of jobs in manufacturing
is shrinking. Only the most productive workers
are keeping their jobs.
Ah...its manufactured more than the rest of the world since the 1930s.
That was NOT your claim and you know it.
Do you need pictures to comprehend?

http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/factories-bounce-back-hiring-hangs-back/

Manufacturing has increased 20% in the last 3 years
but the manufacturing jobs have not increased at
the same pace. This trend is nothing new. The US
produces more steel than it did 30 years ago with only
24% of the steel workers that was needed 30 years ago.
Gunner
2012-12-03 13:28:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
California is shedding manufacturing jobs faster than any other state
thanks to heavy regulation and high taxes, according to a new study.
That is what I said.
The US is still the world leader in manufacturing.
It manufactures more than any other country.
However, the number of jobs in manufacturing
is shrinking. Only the most productive workers
are keeping their jobs.
Ah...its manufactured more than the rest of the world since the 1930s.
That was NOT your claim and you know it.
Do you need pictures to comprehend?
http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/factories-bounce-back-hiring-hangs-back/
Manufacturing has increased 20% in the last 3 years
but the manufacturing jobs have not increased at
the same pace. This trend is nothing new. The US
produces more steel than it did 30 years ago with only
24% of the steel workers that was needed 30 years ago.
Oddly enough..the cites I provided, from Forbes and other REALISTIC
and NOT political sludge ponds say manufacturing is going down
hill..not uphill.

And since I closed yet another once productive manufacturing
company..I believe them..not you.


Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
2012-12-03 14:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
California is shedding manufacturing jobs faster than any other state
thanks to heavy regulation and high taxes, according to a new study.
That is what I said.
The US is still the world leader in manufacturing.
It manufactures more than any other country.
However, the number of jobs in manufacturing
is shrinking. Only the most productive workers
are keeping their jobs.
Ah...its manufactured more than the rest of the world since the 1930s.
That was NOT your claim and you know it.
Do you need pictures to comprehend?
http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/factories-bounce-back-hiring-hangs-back/
Manufacturing has increased 20% in the last 3 years
but the manufacturing jobs have not increased at
the same pace. This trend is nothing new. The US
produces more steel than it did 30 years ago with only
24% of the steel workers that was needed 30 years ago.
Oddly enough..the cites I provided, from Forbes and other REALISTIC
and NOT political sludge ponds say manufacturing is going down
hill..not uphill.
AFAICT, They said manufacturing jobs are going downhill.
Post by Gunner
And since I closed yet another once productive manufacturing
company..I believe them..not you.
It obviously was not very productive.
Gunner
2012-12-03 21:34:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
California is shedding manufacturing jobs faster than any other state
thanks to heavy regulation and high taxes, according to a new study.
That is what I said.
The US is still the world leader in manufacturing.
It manufactures more than any other country.
However, the number of jobs in manufacturing
is shrinking. Only the most productive workers
are keeping their jobs.
Ah...its manufactured more than the rest of the world since the 1930s.
That was NOT your claim and you know it.
Do you need pictures to comprehend?
http://www.facethefactsusa.org/facts/factories-bounce-back-hiring-hangs-back/
Manufacturing has increased 20% in the last 3 years
but the manufacturing jobs have not increased at
the same pace. This trend is nothing new. The US
produces more steel than it did 30 years ago with only
24% of the steel workers that was needed 30 years ago.
Oddly enough..the cites I provided, from Forbes and other REALISTIC
and NOT political sludge ponds say manufacturing is going down
hill..not uphill.
AFAICT, They said manufacturing jobs are going downhill.
They also said Manufacturing was going downhill. Not just the jobs.
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
And since I closed yet another once productive manufacturing
company..I believe them..not you.
It obviously was not very productive.
Indeed it wasnt. No buyers for their products.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Gunner
2012-12-02 20:55:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
The Increase in U.S. Manufacturing Jobs Is Nothing to Cheer About

by Uday Karmarkar | 4:24 PM January 20, 2011

A recent article in The Wall Street Journal pointed to an uptick in
manufacturing jobs in the United States as a glimmer of hope in the
depressing job picture. The increase — the first in a decade — is
certainly an encouraging sign. Manufacturing jobs could, indeed, rise
over the next 5 to 10 years, perhaps even at the 2% annual rate
predicted by some of the economists quoted in the article. But that
won't get us back to the long-term level that prevailed until 2000.
Meanwhile, there are reasons to be concerned about the sector of the
economy that has been the real job creator for decades: namely,
services.

The recent job losses in manufacturing took place in two stages. The
first, the loss of about 3 million jobs in 2000-01, was the steepest
in 50 years. And unlike past slumps, the number did not bounce back to
the 17 million to 18 million that's been the norm since the late
1960s.

The reason can be summarized in one word: China. Almost no sector has
been immune from China's manufacturing expansion, and U.S. firms
themselves have been forced to move jobs abroad to survive the
low-cost competition. After 2002, the decline in U.S. manufacturing
jobs continued at a slower rate into 2007, with another million or so
jobs lost.

Then came the 2007 recession and worldwide financial and economic
crisis. World manufacturing output dropped, and employment everywhere
took a hit. In the U.S., another 2 million manufacturing jobs were
lost after 2008.

What does all this imply about the future for U.S. manufacturing
employment? The 4 million jobs lost before 2008 will probably never
come back.

How about the 2 million lost after 2008? As the world economy
recovers, U.S. manufacturing exports might indeed gain back some
ground, perhaps even helped by a weak dollar. So a 2% increase over a
decade, which would generate a million jobs, could happen. But will we
get all 2 million back? I'm not optimistic.

But the biggest cause for concern is what's happening in services.
Unlike manufacturing jobs, service jobs in the U.S. have shown an
amazingly steady rate of growth since the late 1960s. After every
recession, job creation in services always recovered and at a rate
higher than before. From the early 1980s into 2000, service jobs grew
at about 2.5 million a year except in recession years.

This situation has changed. After the 2001 recession, the rate of
growth was lower than before the recession. From 2001 to 2010, some 20
million service jobs that could have been expected to materialize
based on historical rates did not. It could well be that the rate of
job creation in services has now permanently slowed from the rate in
the two decades preceding 2001.

Why?

Job growth has slowed significantly in the financial- and
business-services sectors due to technology-driven service
industrialization (automation, outsourcing, off-shoring, process
re-engineering, and self-service).

Employment in the wholesale and retail trade also is slowing down;
industrialization (in the form of e-commerce and online retailing) is
undoubtedly one reason.

My guess is jobs in the hospitality and leisure industries, which took
a hit in the Great Recession, will recover but slowly, since they are
driven by consumer spending.

Education and health are about the only substantial service-sector
employers where the jobs outlook is bright. They are not seriously
affected by recessions and continue to show impressive rates of job
creation. Technology will affect them, but the impact will take longer
and may be less deep than other areas.

The real problem, of course, is not the number of jobs in the U.S. but
the number of unemployed. Since 1980, the civilian workforce in the
U.S. has grown almost linearly since 1980 at a rate of about 1.67
million per year. But this rate abruptly flattens out after 2007 —
largely because the retirement of the baby boomers is offsetting the
growth in the workforce due to the increase in the population
(including immigration). If that remains the case, then in a few
years, there may be jobs that go begging.

But if those jobs require levels of education and training that job
seekers lack, unemployment could still remain fairly high.

Now you can see why I don't think the slight uptick in manufacturing
jobs is a cause for celebration.

Uday Karmarkar is the LA Times Professor of Technology and Strategy at
the UCLA Anderson School of Management and directs the global Business
and Information Technology (BIT) research project with partners in 20
countries.




The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Gunner
2012-12-02 20:57:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
The New Artisan Economy
Manufacturing jobs aren’t coming back. Neither are construction jobs.
America’s workers need to learn some new skills to stay ahead.

By Ray Fisman|Posted Monday, July 16, 2012, at 6:30 AM ET
House Under Construction.

The end of the housing boom may have revealed a deeper long-term
problem in low-skilled employment

Photograph by Thinkstock

The recovery from the Great Recession of 2007-09 has been so anemic
that the average American would probably be surprised to hear that the
recession has officially ended. The National Bureau of Economic
Research declared that it was over by June 2009, but the economy
hasn’t exactly come roaring back. In the 12 months that followed, GDP
grew by a modest 2.5 percent, less than one-half of the bounce
following the two previous recessions (in 1974-75 and 1981-82) that
pundits often compare to the most recent one.

As to the cause of the slow recovery, there has been much
finger-pointing: There is too little government stimulus; too much
government stimulus; tax rates are too high; tax rates are too low.
Erik Hurst, a macroeconomist at the University of Chicago, argues
that—in contrast to earlier recessions, when the economy temporarily
performed below its long-run capacity—the 2008 recession was a
necessary corrective for an economy overheated and distorted by a
credit-fueled housing bubble. If Hurst is right, we’re now adjusting
to a new normal, one in which there are fewer manufacturing jobs to go
around and no housing boom to absorb all the unskilled workers who
could have found work in a less globalized and computerized era.

While the recession reduced incomes and increased unemployment across
all socioeconomic groups, the poor have been hit harder than anyone
else. According to data from the U.S. Census Bureau, the bottom 20
percent of American families earned less in 2010 than they did in
2006, the year before the recession began. Every other income quintile
is at least back at where they started, or even a little ahead. For
the bottom quintile, this is just the most recent setback in a series
of them: Their share of America’s economic pie has been shrinking for
decades.
Advertisement

There are two broad shifts that account for much of this decline:
globalization and computerization. From T-shirts to toys,
manufacturing jobs have migrated to low-wage countries like Vietnam,
Bangladesh, and of course China. Meanwhile, many of the tasks that
might have been done by middle-income Americans employed as
bookkeepers or middle managers have been replaced by spreadsheets and
data algorithms.

Hurst notes that fewer and fewer Americans with a high school
education or less are finding employment in manufacturing. This is a
trend that accelerated in the late 1990s. Some of those lost jobs
resulted in twentysomethings exiting the labor force. But a great many
were absorbed by a thriving construction sector. Between 1998 and
2007, the share of lower-education men employed in manufacturing fell
from 15 to 10 percent, virtually a mirror image of construction, where
the share increased from 15 to nearly 20 percent.

The wages of less educated men—which had been in decline since the
1970s—also enjoyed a brief reprieve in the late 1990s and into the
following decade. Working with University of Chicago colleagues Kerwin
Charles and Matthew Notowidigdo, Hurst found that these aggregate
statistics for the United States as a whole have played out in
miniature across the country (PDF), as one would expect if the housing
boom were really behind the short-lived uptick in the employment and
salaries for the bottom 20 percent. In regions where the housing booms
were greatest, the employment prospects of low-skilled workers fared
the best, while in places that the housing bubble passed by, the job
prospects of such workers continued their inexorable decline. (The
researchers also found that the increase in construction employment
was only part of the explanation: Low-skilled service employment also
went up in places with housing booms as local residents, feeling
wealthier as a result of the increased value of their homes, spent
more at restaurants, barber shops, and local retail establishments.)

Overall, Hurst and his co-authors estimate that roughly 40 percent of
the increase in nonemployment (those who are unemployed but still
looking for jobs, as well as those who have given up and exited the
labor force entirely) since 2007 involves manufacturing jobs that were
already lost during the earlier part of the decade. But the loss of
these jobs was temporarily obscured by the housing boom that allowed
low-skilled individuals to find work. (For the college-educated, there
was at most a modest connection between the housing booms and
employment.)

Do we expect the jobs that resulted from the housing boom to once
again come to the rescue of low-wage Americans? Hurst doesn’t think
so. The run-up in home prices that triggered the jump in construction
and local spending was relatively short-lived, and home prices have
returned to the levels where one might expect them to be, based on the
moderate price growth that has prevailed over many decades in just
about every state in the Union. In New York, home prices grew at
around 2.4 percent a year from 2000 to 2010, once you add up the 5
percent annual growth of 2000-07 and the bust that followed. This is
not much different from the 2 percent annual growth that the state
experienced from 1980 to 2000. Similarly, Nevada home prices declined
slightly over 2000-10 despite the massive housing boom of the first
half of the decade, just as they did during the years 1980-2000.

So just as we probably shouldn’t expect home prices to come roaring
back, don’t hold your breath for a rapid recovery in employment—a lot
of those jobs were already lost before the boom started, as a result
of manufacturing’s long-term decline. This presents a bleak future for
low-skilled Americans: declining job prospects and wages with no
obvious reversal in sight. This isn’t anything new—Hurst and his
colleagues emphasize that the housing bubble merely provided a brief
respite from this steady drop.

Few economists feel that there’s much hope in propping up
manufacturing businesses where they still exist—a lot of those jobs
will continue to migrate to lower-wage locales. But at the same time,
some leading labor economists are reasonably bullish on the long-term
prospects for American workers—if we make the right policy choices to
prepare them for the new global economy.



While manufacturing jobs have long since departed for China and India,
the U.S. economy continues to grow and even manufacture products that
the world wants to buy—we export more in dollar terms than we did a
decade ago. But what we’re sending (and how it’s made) is drastically
different today. As Enrico Moretti documents in compelling detail in a
recently released book, The New Geography of Jobs, even if we don’t
assemble iPhones or sneakers in America, we supply their designs to
those who do. And we do still make things—things like precision
scientific instruments and jetliners. But the way we’re producing them
has changed as well: Even in sectors that have expanded production
over the last decade, there are fewer jobs to be had—the so-called
productivity paradox. The reason? Production is increasingly
automated, requiring more computers and fewer human beings.

All this adds up to an economy that generates just as much income, but
with profits flowing into far fewer pockets than they did in the
previous century. Moretti suggests that the prognosis for the average
American worker need not be so gloomy if, as he predicts, America
continues to thrive as a hub of knowledge generation and innovation.
While the idea creators—those who design iPhones and develop new
drugs—will continue to be the drivers of prosperity, more than a few
crumbs may fall to the workers who support them. For example, Moretti
estimates that Microsoft alone is responsible for adding 120,000
low-skill jobs to the Seattle area, where the company is based. This
is because of the support workers required to style the hair, cut the
grass, and yes, build the houses, of all those Microsoft engineers and
computer scientists. And they earn more doing it—a barber in San
Francisco earns about 40 percent more than his counterpart in Detroit
or Riverside, Calif. So one way of boosting incomes of the bottom
quintile would be to provide incentives for them to pick up and move
from the rust belt to innovation hubs like Austin, San Francisco, and
Boston.

Of course, if people actually start moving in significant numbers, the
benefits of cutting hair or grass in Austin rather than Detroit will
quickly evaporate—the price of low-income housing will be bid up, and
the salaries of barbers bid down. In the longer run, the bottom 20
percent—indeed the bottom 99 percent—will need to be retrained and
re-educated to get a larger share of U.S. GDP. Eminent Harvard labor
economist Larry Katz sees a future where many lower-skilled workers
are employed in the service sector supporting America’s innovative
class. But he sees it as an open question as to whether these service
jobs will be as sales clerks and lawn hands, or fashion consultants
and landscape designers. Katz refers to these would-be consultants,
designers, and other skilled service providers as forming the
foundation of the New Artisan Economy.
Advertisement

If jobs are being lost to low-wage Indians and computer programs, then
what today’s worker needs is a set of skills that offers the personal
touch and judgment that can’t be provided by a machine or someone 12
time zones away. Katz argues that this will be crucial for those with
only high school educations, who will need to learn a “high touch”
trade—like personal trainers, kitchen designers, and home health
aides—where personal interaction is critical. He makes a similar
argument for the college educated as well: With many clerical and
lower-level management jobs made obsolete by advances in information
technology or lost to off-shoring, they’ll have to reinvent themselves
as, say, IT support professionals or consultants. (In making the
argument that college graduates will also need to be retrained for the
job market of the future, Katz points out that middle-income earners
have gotten hammered the hardest in the past decade—also part of a
longer trend going back decades—particularly in IT-intensive sectors.)
Katz’s hope for the new economy is a workforce whose skills make their
services sufficiently desirable to Moretti’s idea-creators that the
bottom 99 percent do better than single-digit hourly wages in the job
market.

An artisan economy can’t be built overnight. We’ve spent the last
decade funneling too many workers into construction jobs that may
never come back. These workers now lack the skills required in Katz’s
economy of the future. And perhaps the most depressing statistic that
Hurst points to in describing the plight of low-skill Americans is
that, after falling steadily for 15 years, the fraction of men who
stopped their educations by the end of high school went up by a few
percent between 1997 and 2006, before resuming its decline. Why?
Presumably more school looks less attractive to an 18-year-old if he
can get a decent job doing construction. Not exactly a lost
generation, but these are yet more young males who will need
retraining to get decent jobs or even stay in the workforce.

Is America up to the task of retraining its workforce to be artisans
rather than burger flippers? In recent congressional testimony, Katz
is critical of current government training schemes like those funded
under the Workforce Investment Act. He calls them “fragmented and
difficult for many workers to navigate.”

At the same time, professor Katz maintains a glimmer of hope. As he
observed in his testimony, there is emerging evidence that job
retraining can be effective in teaching older workers new skills when
done right. Amid the many failures, Katz points to some exceptional
retraining programs that have demonstrated promise in helping workers
to cost-effectively upgrade their earnings. For example, Per Scholas,
a 15-week program in New York that provides training for installing
and repairing computer networks, increased participants’ annual
incomes by nearly $5,000 within two years of beginning their training.
Programs like Per Scholas produce these large effects through a
combination of in-class instruction and on-the-job training, often
with a post-training middleman to help with placement in a job where
their skills are well-utilized. Katz calls for evidence-based funding
that rewards programs that do well by their clients.

Realistically, it’s going to be hard to transform an illiterate and
innumerate burger flipper into an IT support specialist overnight—Per
Scholas, for example, will only take applicants with a high school
diploma or GED who also test at the 10th grade level or higher in math
and English. So Katz also sees improving basic education—upgrading
school quality and graduation rates, and channeling more graduates
into post-secondary training—as essential to building a new artisan
economy.

Whether a gridlocked and partisan government can come together to
develop a sensible agenda for skills development and job creation is
an open question. But the future of the American worker depends on it.

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Gunner
2012-12-02 21:07:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/09/02/obamas-accelerating-downward-spiral-for-america/2/

Obama's Accelerating Downward Spiral For America

WASHINGTON - JULY 21: U.S. President Barack O...


New income data from the Census Bureau reveal what a great job Barack
Obama has done for the middle class as President. During his entire
tenure in the oval office, median household income has declined by
7.3%.

In January, 2009, the month he entered office, median household income
was $54,983. By June, 2012, it had spiraled down to $50,964. That’s
a loss of $4,019 per family, the equivalent of losing a little less
than one month’s income a year, every year. And on our current course
that is only going to get worse not better.


Obama never tires of telling us that the economy was in one of the
worst recessions since the Great Depression when he entered office, as
if he was the only President to have suffered a recession early in his
term. But nobody expected that he would use the vast powers of the
most powerful office in the world to make it worse. But that is what
he has done.

Even if you start from when the recession ended in June, 2009, the
decline since then has been greater than it was during the recession.
Three years into the Obama recovery, median family income had declined
nearly 5% by June, 2012 as compared to June, 2009. That is nearly
twice the decline of 2.6% that occurred during the recession from
December, 2007 until June, 2009. As the Wall Street Journal
summarized in its August 25-26 weekend edition, “For household income,
in other words, the Obama recovery has been worse than the Bush
recession.”

The Journal elaborated, “The President portrays the financial decline
of American families on his watch as part of a decades-long trend.
He’s wrong. Real income for middle income households rose by roughly
30% from 1983 to 2005, according to the Congressional Budget Office.”
And MSNBC hosts, listen up, you might learn something. The Journal
further explains, “The political left likes to blame the ebbing of
union power. But non-government unionization fell dramatically in the
1980s and 90s, and incomes rose.”

True, income growth lagged from where it should have been during the
Bush years. But that only reflected the abandonment of half of
Reagan’s economic program during those years. While Bush’s tax rate
reductions did promote growth, Bush and the Republican Congress lost
control of federal spending during the 2000s. Federal spending as a
percent of GDP increased by one-seventh during the Bush years, almost
exactly reversing the gains that had been won under Speaker Gingrich’s
Republican Congress in the 1990s. (Clinton played a good rhetorical
game appearing to fight the spending reductions, but deserves great
credit for substantively giving into them in the end.)

But more important by far was that the Bush Fed abandoned the
Reagan/Clinton strong dollar monetary policy for a cheap dollar,
Keynesian style monetary policy, falling for the dopey Keynesian line
that a cheap currency promotes exports. The Bush Treasury Secretaries
cheered this debasement of the Fed’s monetary policy, reflecting the
dark cloud of reemerging Keynesian influence on national economic
policy.

What is overlooked is that a declining dollar may reduce the prices of
American exports, but it makes the entire nation poorer in the
process, reducing the international purchasing power of every dollar
every American worker earns, and reducing the international value of
every asset owned by every American investor, business entrepreneur,
and property owner.

The problem is that Obama has only greatly accelerated everything Bush
did wrong, and reversed everything Bush did right. So Obama’s
spending has skyrocketed the federal budget by nearly one-fourth as a
percent of GDP in just one term. Moreover, the Obama Fed has
abandoned any semblance of control over monetary policy, buying most
of the soaring federal debt issued to finance Obama’s record smashing
federal deficits with newly printed money (actually created by
computer record, a sort of cyberprinting). Of course, the whole point
of Obama’s tax policy has been to more than reverse the Bush tax rate
cuts, which is now already slated under current law to go into effect
on January 1.

That is why it will all only get worse in a second Obama term, as the
economy slides back into a double-dip recession in 2013 unless these
Obama policies are swiftly reversed. I first began ringing alarm
bells about that a year ago with the publication of my Encounter Books
Broadside No. 25, Obama and the Crash of 2013. But now even the
Washington establishment CBO is pealing the air raid siren as well.

Renewed, double-dip recession would mean unemployment rocketing back
into double digits once again, the deficit exploding to over $2
trillion, the highest in world history by far, real wages and incomes
declining even more, and poverty soaring further.

Obama has failed the poor as well as the middle class. Last year, the
Census Bureau reported more Americans in poverty than ever before in
the more than 50 years that Census has been tracking poverty. Now The
Huffington Post reports that the poverty rate is on track to rise to
the highest level since 1965, before the War on Poverty began. A July
22 story by Hope Yen reports that when the new poverty rates are
released in September, “even a 0.1 percentage point increase would put
poverty at the highest level since 1965.” But a consensus survey of
experts across the political spectrum indicates the poverty rate could
soar from the current 15.1% to as high as 15.7%. “Poverty is
spreading at record levels across many groups, from underemployed
workers and suburban families to the poorest poor,” Hope Yen reports.

This is consistent with the effect of Obamanomics on incomes. “The
group that has suffered the most during the Obama Presidency has been
black Americans, whose real incomes have fallen by more than 11%.,”
the Journal also observed in its August 25-26 weekend edition.
Don't Believe Obama's Ads, Romney Is A Middle Class Tax Cutter Peter
Ferrara Peter Ferrara Contributor
The Election 2012 Prizefight: Paul Ryan's Budget Vs. Barack Obama's
Peter Ferrara Peter Ferrara Contributor
When It Comes to the Jobless Numbers, President Obama Isn't Talking
Straight Peter Ferrara Peter Ferrara Contributor
There's No Mystery To Slow Economic Growth: Progressives Are The
Problem Peter Ferrara Peter Ferrara Contributor

There is no secret or magic as to how to turn around these declining
incomes. Increased investment in business expansion and start ups
increases demand for labor, which drives up wages. That investment
buys new tools and capital equipment for workers, making them more
productive, which provides the cash flow to increase wages.

Increasing investment results from reducing the tax rates on
investment, which enables investors to keep a higher percentage of
what they produce, increasing incentives for investment. It also
comes from maintaining a stable or rising dollar, which assures
investors they will not lose some of their investment returns to a
declining dollar or rising inflation, or the boom and bust cycles that
dollar manipulation and inflation create.

As the Journal further explained,

“A key driver of higher wages in the 1980s and 1990s was a surge
of capital investment in computers, plant and equipment, which made
American workers more productive. When Mr. Obama pledges to raise
taxes on investment income (capital gains, dividends and small
business profits), he is making it costlier to innovate and modernize.
That plays out over time into slower gains in productivity and wages.”

A renewed economic boom in jobs and incomes is long overdue, straining
within the bonds of Obamanomics to break out. Before this last
recession, going back to the Great Depression 75 years ago, recessions
in America have lasted an average of 10 months, with the longest
previously at 16 months. But here we are 56 months after the
recession started in December, 2007, with no real recovery yet in
sight.

Yes, the recession technically ended more than 3 years ago. But the
point is that what we are suffering today is the worst economic
recovery since the Great Depression. And no Obama apologists cannot
say that the recovery is so bad because the recession was so bad,
because the American historical record is the worse the recession the
stronger the recovery, as the American economy has always before
snapped back to its world leading economic growth trend line. That
even happened after the Great Depression (once Roosevelt was gone).
Check out for yourself the historical record of American recessions
and recoveries at www.nber.org.

Based on this historical record, America should be enjoying its third
year of a raging recovery economic boom right now. And it will, after
Obama is gone, and his policies are reversed.

The above market process of increased investment, increased demand for
labor, increased productivity, and increased wages and incomes is the
way that it has worked to increase the wages and incomes of American
workers for 300 years. And it is the only way that works. Rising
wages, incomes, prosperity, and living standards do not result from
increased government spending, increased deficits and government debt,
increased Fed money creation, greater income and wealth
redistribution, or any other fever swamp of Obamanomics.

If this generation of Americans does not get it, they will not enjoy
the world leading living standards, and American Dream, of prior
generations of Americans. Moreover, they will not deserve it. There
is no law of the universe that says America must be the richest, most
prosperous nation in the history of the world. If the American people
do not choose the wisest leaders following traditional American, free
market, economic policies, but instead choose the hope and change of
the economic policies of Argentina and Venezuela, then they will get,
and deserve, the prosperity and living standards of Argentina or
Venezuela.
The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Gunner
2012-12-02 21:09:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
US Manufacturing falls for first time in almost three years
Share
By Doug Powers • July 2, 2012 01:36 PM

**Written by Doug Powers

“I’m here because the factory that’s being built behind me is an
example of an America that is within our reach. An America that
attracts the next generation of engineering jobs, an America where we
build stuff, and make stuff, and sell stuff all over the world.” –
President Obama, January 2012
*****

Brace for the creation of a brand spankin’ new “Federal Department of
Making and Selling More Stuff” to get to the bottom of why this is
happening:

U.S. manufacturing shrank in June for the first time in nearly
three years, a troubling sign as evidence builds that economic growth
is slowing.

The Institute for Supply Management, a trade group of purchasing
managers, said Monday that its index of manufacturing activity fell to
49.7. That’s down from 53.5 in May and the lowest reading since July
2009, one more after the recession officially ended. Readings below 50
indicate contraction.

Production fell to a three-year low and a measure of new orders
plummeted by the most in more than a decade, suggesting the weakness
will likely persist in the coming months.

Stocks, which had largely been flat when the market opened, fell
immediately after the report was released at 10 a.m. The Dow Jones
industrial average dropped more than 70 points in morning trading.

The contraction can be partially attributed to aggressive pricing
actions from Chinese manufacturers lowering demand for U.S.-made
thingamajigs.


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Gunner
2012-12-02 21:16:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
And its not just California....

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49059364/New_York_Manufacturing_Level_Keeps_on_Falling

http://blogs.e-rockford.com/bobtrojan/2011/03/06/state-business-incentive-program-falling-short-of-promised-job-creation/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9444191/US-manufacturing-grew-at-slowest-pace-in-three-years.html

2:26PM BST 01 Aug 2012

US manufacturing grew at slowest pace in three years
The US manufacturing sector grew at its slowest pace in nearly three
years in July as the eurozone debt crisis and economic and political
uncertainty at home dented demand.
US manufacturing grew at slowest pace in three years
Chris Williamson, chief economist at Markit, said order books barely
grew in July as export orders fell for a second month, signalling 'a
real risk of manufacturing production falling in the third quarter'.


The final Markit US Manufacturing Purchasing Managers Index stood at
51.4 in July, below both a preliminary estimate of 51.8 and June's
reading of 52.5. It was the lowest reading since September of 2009. A
reading above 50 indicates growth.

Chris Williamson, chief economist at Markit, said order books barely
grew in July as export orders fell for a second month, signalling "a
real risk of manufacturing production falling in the third quarter
unless demand picks up soon".

The pace of overall new orders slowed to 51.0 from 53.7 in June.

"Producers are being hit by the ongoing euro zone crisis, slower
global economic growth and increasing unease about demand in the home
market as elections loom closer and uncertainty hangs over fiscal and
monetary policies," Mr Williamson said.

The index's employment component slipped to 52.7 from 52.8, and Mr
Williamson said this suggested "companies are clearly taking a
cautious approach to recruitment."
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"Firms continued to take on extra staff, but hiring is nothing like as
widespread as earlier in the year ... and the job market will most
likely remain subdued until global economic uncertainty begins to
lift."

He said that any worsening of business conditions woould "raise the
risk of the labour market recovery moving into reverse".

The US economy slowed in the second quarter, leaving markets betting
that the Federal Reserve will kick off another round of monetary
stimulus, possibly by September.

Earlier to day eurozone manufacturing activity contracted for the 11th
month in a row as the downturn in the currency bloc dragged down star
performer Germany.

The Purchasing Managers Index (PMI), a survey of 3,000 eurozone
manufacturers compiled by research company Markit, fell to 44.0 points
in July, down from 45.1 points in June. A score below 50 indicates a
contraction.

The index has now fallen to a 37-month low with Markit warning that
rates of manufacturing decline in Germany, France and Spain were
"either at or close to the steepest since mid-2009."

Manufacturing in Germany, Europe's largest economy, contracted at its
fastest pace in three years last month and it was a similar story in
neighbouring France. Spain, which slid deeper into recession in the
second quarter, saw the 15th straight month of contraction, while
Italy chalked up a year in contractionary territory.

The PMI for Greece, where the debt crisis began, has been below 50
since September 2009. Ireland was the only country to show signs of
emerging from the downturn, Markit said, where its PMI was above 50
for the fifth month.

"Rates of decline hit the fastest for three years or more in Germany
and France, but Spain and Greece continue to stand out in seeing
particularly disappointing performances," Mr Williamson said.

Factories across the eurozone cut prices at the fastest pace since
early 2010, but the new orders index still fell to 42.8 from the
previous month's 43.5 and has only been lower once in over three
years. New export orders were at an eight-month low.

The output index sank to 43.4, the lowest since May 2009, under June's
44.7 and an earlier flash 43.6. Markit said it was in line with the
official measure of production falling at a quarterly rate of over 1
percent.

"The current weakness of global economic growth suggests that all
producers face a challenging environment in export markets as well as
at home," Mr Williamson said.

In Britain the latest Markit/CIPS purchasing managers' index (PMI),
where a reading above 50 represents growth, slipped to 45.4 last
month, contracting for a third month in a row following readings of
48.6 and 45.9 in June and May respectively.

The figures come after PMI data in China revealed the slowest growth
in manufacturing in eight months.

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Gunner
2012-12-02 21:19:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11059439/1/10-industries-on-life-support.html?cm_ven=outbrain


Now...if you work for the government..you may be in the toilet..or on
cloud 9

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2011/07/13/10-Insanely-Overpaid-Public-Employees.aspx#page1


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
jon_banquer
2012-12-02 21:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
Take a look at the job offers for machinists on Craigslist in
California. Tons of job listings for machinists at good wages. The
problem is that Gunner isn't a machinist, doesn't have the needed
machining skills and refuses to go to school to improve his skill set.
Yardpilot
2012-12-02 23:07:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
Way off. Manufacturing is FAR below the 2000-2001 levels. Now, if you believe your own last statement, we have to get rid of ALL government social and support programs. Ready for that?
Too_Many_Tools
2012-12-03 04:37:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@
Post by Gunner
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Your unemployment appears to be due to your incompetence.
It has nothing to do with who is in the White House.
Manufacturing is growing and is back to
pre 2008 meltdown levels, but the number employed
is shrinking. Only the strong survive.
the incompetent are weeded out.
His unemplyment IS the result of his decision.

The consequence ARE his reward.

TMT
pyotr filipivich
2012-12-02 21:57:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gunner
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 21:54:50 -0800, pyotr filipivich
Post by pyotr filipivich
Post by Tom Gardner
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
It seems that it's a GREAT victory for all the people with the same
value system.
If this is the improvement, then I wonder what sort of hell hole
things were like back in the Bush years.
Ayup...it was a hell hole indeed. I was working 40 hrs a week, putting
money in the bank, had 3 trucks and a car, 2 sailboats and could
afford new boots now and then.
Yeah I remember those days - 10 to 12 hours a day, four and five
days a week - the over time pay. And the cheap gasoline to put in the
truck. I could even consider buying a house. Plus I had a good
credit score. Yeah, those days, they were horrible.
Post by Gunner
But today..Hallaluyah!..Im down to one truck, no money in the bank, no
boats in the water and cant even afford to pick up used boots from the
Goodwill.
Obama is such a wonderful president!!!
Post by pyotr filipivich
--
pyotr filipivich
Most journalists these days couldn't investigate a missing chocolate cake
at a pre-school without a Democrat office holder telling them what to look for,
where, and why it is Geroge Bush's fault.
1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
--
pyotr filipivich
Most journalists these days couldn't investigate a missing chocolate cake
at a pre-school without a Democrat office holder telling them what to look for,
where, and why it is Geroge Bush's fault.
Harold Burton
2012-11-30 03:44:20 UTC
Permalink
In article
It may....considering that he has done quite well in . . .
. . . putting american citizens in concentration camps.



snicker
Dr. Fraud
2012-11-30 11:17:38 UTC
Permalink
In article <e9a2163c-9ac6-4ebf-8426-
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
retarded liberals.

Clinton's war that he started when he left office ran up the
debt, cocksucker.
Post by Too_Many_Tools
TMT
   
John
2012-11-30 14:00:52 UTC
Permalink
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Obama will be remembered as jimmy carter's evil twin.
Jim Wilkins
2012-11-30 15:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Obama will be remembered as jimmy carter's evil twin.
Let us be glad if that is all he is remembered for, rather than
dragging us to the brink like Kennedy or actually dropping the Bomb
like Truman.
Robert Westergrom,1900 Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E
2012-11-30 15:43:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Obama will be remembered as jimmy carter's evil twin.
Awwwwhhh, c'mon now. I have a visceral hatred for Jimmuh but you
shouldn't be so hard on the boy. O'Clueless makes Jimmuh look like the
greatest human to ever shit through a meat asshole.
SaPeIsMa
2012-11-30 16:59:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Obama will be remembered as jimmy carter's evil twin.
Not evil, just more incompetent.
Robert Westergrom,1900 Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E
2012-11-30 19:32:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by SaPeIsMa
Post by John
Obama will be remembered as jimmy carter's evil twin.
Not evil, just more incompetent.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !! Ditto !!!
RogerN
2012-12-01 19:40:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
I think there is a good chance that Obama will be remembered as the F*cking
Democrat Retard of this century!

RogerN
Gunner
2012-12-01 21:34:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by RogerN
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
I think there is a good chance that Obama will be remembered as the F*cking
Democrat Retard of this century!
RogerN
I suspect he will be remembered as the Last President of the old
United States.

Shrug

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Too_Many_Tools
2012-12-03 04:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by RogerN
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
I think there is a good chance that Obama will be remembered as the F*cking
Democrat Retard of this century!
RogerN
And this comment comes from a "religious" conservative.

Supporters like you are the reason why America voted for Obama.

We WON...you LOST.

Laugh..laugh..laugh...

TMT
RogerN
2012-12-04 00:17:49 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Too_Many_Tools
Post by RogerN
I think there is a good chance that Obama will be remembered as the F*cking
Democrat Retard of this century!
RogerN
And this comment comes from a "religious" conservative.
Supporters like you are the reason why America voted for Obama.
We WON...you LOST.
Laugh..laugh..laugh...
TMT
Speaking of WON....
http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/legal-victory-against-obamacare-mandate/
http://fox2now.com/2012/11/29/court-issues-injunction-blocking-contraception-coverage-under-obamacare/
http://aclj.org/obamacare
http://godfatherpolitics.com/8314/8th-circuit-blocks-obamacare-mandate/
http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/29/federal-court-issues-injunction-against-hhs-implementation-of-obamacare-contraception-mandate/
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2012/11/eighth_circuit_grants_stay_obrien_holdings_obamacare.php

Obama's unconstitutional healthcare abortion mandate is failing. The
libtards elected a failure-in-chief!

Laugh..laugh..laugh...

RogerN
Too_Many_Tools
2012-12-04 02:30:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by F. George McDuffee
<snip>
Post by Too_Many_Tools
Post by RogerN
I think there is a good chance that Obama will be remembered as the F*cking
Democrat Retard of this century!
RogerN
And this comment comes from a "religious" conservative.
Supporters like you are the reason why America voted for Obama.
We WON...you LOST.
Laugh..laugh..laugh...
TMT
Speaking of WON....http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/legal-victory-against-obamacare-mandate/http://fox2now.com/2012/11/29/court-issues-injunction-blocking-contra...http://aclj.org/obamacarehttp://godfatherpolitics.com/8314/8th-circuit-blocks-obamacare-mandate/http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/29/federal-court-issues-injunction-aga...http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2012/11/eighth_circuit_gran...
Obama's unconstitutional healthcare abortion mandate is failing.  The
libtards elected a failure-in-chief!
Laugh..laugh..laugh...
RogerN- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
LOL...no one to rape with a mop handle Roger?

I hear Mitt Romney is down on his luck...maybe you and him can get a
room?

TMT

Gray Guest
2012-12-02 17:06:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
Either he will be known as the President who buried the Constitution or the
catalyst for a new American Revolution to fully restore Liberty.

It would be better if he were erased from history. The sooner the better.
--
Refusenik #1

Libs suffer from Eleutherophobia. And there is no cure.

Obama called the SEALs and THEY got bin Laden. When the SEALs called Obama,
THEY GOT DENIED. Fuck Obama
Too_Many_Tools
2012-12-02 20:10:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gray Guest
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
Either he will be known as the President who buried the Constitution or the
catalyst for a new American Revolution to fully restore Liberty.
It would be better if he were erased from history. The sooner the better.
--
Refusenik #1
Libs suffer from Eleutherophobia. And there is no cure.
Obama called the SEALs and THEY got bin Laden. When the SEALs called Obama,
THEY GOT DENIED. Fuck Obama
LOL...history is written by the victors.

We WON...you LOST.

It is you who will be erased from history.

Laugh..laugh..laugh...

TMT
Liquidator Brunt
2012-12-02 21:03:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
Right wing revisionist dogma dictates that FDR was a disaster. Of
course that's simply hogwash and only reared its ugly head of lies a
few years ago, completely refuted by history. (Rightists often claim
that Historians are all liberals, part the the big conspiracy to
discredit them).

They'll probably say the same about Obama one day too.

After all, a Republican adminstrion caused the great depression, and
the same with this one as well.
The weasels need to protect their failed ideology somehow.

That's why they keep saying that studying university level history is
evil because the right wing fever swamps tell the real truth. They
like their minions to remain uneducated, so they'll be gullible enough
to sop up the right wing propaganda.
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
2012-12-02 21:44:56 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 2 Dec 2012 13:03:25 -0800 (PST), Liquidator Brunt
Post by Liquidator Brunt
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
Right wing revisionist dogma dictates that FDR was a disaster. Of
course that's simply hogwash and only reared its ugly head of lies a
few years ago, completely refuted by history. (Rightists often claim
that Historians are all liberals, part the the big conspiracy to
discredit them).
They'll probably say the same about Obama one day too.
After all, a Republican adminstrion caused the great depression, and
the same with this one as well.
The weasels need to protect their failed ideology somehow.
That's why they keep saying that studying university level history is
evil because the right wing fever swamps tell the real truth. They
like their minions to remain uneducated, so they'll be gullible enough
to sop up the right wing propaganda.
FWIMBW here's what an eminent Conservative historian had to say about
neocons.
--
"It has always struck me as odd, even perverse, that former Marxists
have been permitted, yes invited, to play such a leading role in the
Conservative movement of the twentieth century.

It is splendid when the town whore gets religion and joins the church.
Now and then she makes a good choir director, but when she begins to
tell the minister what he ought to say in his Sunday sermons, matters
have been carried too far."

Stephen Tonsor
Rod Stein
2012-12-02 22:54:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by GOP_Decline_and_Fall
On Sun, 2 Dec 2012 13:03:25 -0800 (PST), Liquidator Brunt
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
Right wing revisionist dogma dictates that FDR was a disaster.  Of
course that's simply hogwash and only reared its ugly head of lies a
few years ago, completely refuted by history.  (Rightists often claim
that Historians are all liberals, part the the big conspiracy to
discredit them).
They'll probably say the same about Obama one day too.
After all, a Republican adminstrion caused the great depression, and
the same with this one as well.
The weasels need to protect their failed ideology somehow.
That's why they keep saying that studying university level history is
evil because the right wing fever swamps tell the real truth.   They
like their minions to remain uneducated, so they'll be gullible enough
to sop up the right wing propaganda.
FWIMBW here's what an eminent Conservative historian had to say about
neocons.
--
"It has always struck me as odd, even perverse, that former Marxists
have been permitted, yes invited, to play such a leading role in the
Conservative movement of the twentieth century.
It is splendid when the town whore gets religion and joins the church.
Now and then she makes a good choir director, but when she begins to
tell the minister what he ought to say in his Sunday sermons, matters
have been carried too far."
Stephen Tonsor
Grey Guest and Gummer say that anyone who says things that insult
their rightist sensibilities should be put on a list for
extermination. Or in Grey Guest's woodchipper.

Doesn't that prove that Rightists are a violent, ignorant mob of
savages?

That's why some of them post positively about Uganda as a a right wing
paradise, because that's a third world shit hole where they execute
homosexuals. Of course, if the allegedly "rugged independent"
libertarians want to live in their dream country, they should try
Somalia. There's hardly any government there, and nobody pays taxes.

Rightists are like pigs in a sewer, sucking up feces like it's food.
GOP_Decline_and_Fall
2012-12-03 01:47:09 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 2 Dec 2012 14:54:37 -0800 (PST), Rod Stein
Post by Rod Stein
Post by GOP_Decline_and_Fall
On Sun, 2 Dec 2012 13:03:25 -0800 (PST), Liquidator Brunt
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
Right wing revisionist dogma dictates that FDR was a disaster.  Of
course that's simply hogwash and only reared its ugly head of lies a
few years ago, completely refuted by history.  (Rightists often claim
that Historians are all liberals, part the the big conspiracy to
discredit them).
They'll probably say the same about Obama one day too.
After all, a Republican adminstrion caused the great depression, and
the same with this one as well.
The weasels need to protect their failed ideology somehow.
That's why they keep saying that studying university level history is
evil because the right wing fever swamps tell the real truth.   They
like their minions to remain uneducated, so they'll be gullible enough
to sop up the right wing propaganda.
FWIMBW here's what an eminent Conservative historian had to say about
neocons.
--
"It has always struck me as odd, even perverse, that former Marxists
have been permitted, yes invited, to play such a leading role in the
Conservative movement of the twentieth century.
It is splendid when the town whore gets religion and joins the church.
Now and then she makes a good choir director, but when she begins to
tell the minister what he ought to say in his Sunday sermons, matters
have been carried too far."
Stephen Tonsor
Grey Guest and Gummer say that anyone who says things that insult
their rightist sensibilities should be put on a list for
extermination. Or in Grey Guest's woodchipper.
In his dreams Gunner fancies himself as a latter day Colonel Kurtz
waiting for his Willard.



COL Walter E. Kurtz, portrayed by Marlon Brando, is a fictional
character and the main antagonist of Francis Ford Coppola's 1979 film
Apocalypse Now.

COL Kurtz is based on the character of a 19th century ivory trader,
also called Kurtz, from the novella Heart of Darkness by Joseph
Conrad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_Kurtz

Walter Kurtz was a regular army officer in the United States Army; he
had risen through the ranks and was seen to be destined for a top post
within the Pentagon. In his first tour of Vietnam in 1964, he was sent
by the Joint Chiefs of Staff to compile a report on the failings of
the current military policies. His report was not what was expected
and was immediately restricted for the joint chiefs and President
Lyndon B. Johnson only.

Not long after, Kurtz applied for the 5th Special Forces Group, which
was denied to him out of hand because of his advanced age of 38 for
the basic training. Kurtz continued with his ambition and even
threatened to quit the armed forces, when finally his wish was granted
and he was allowed to take the airborne course. Kurtz graduated in a
class where he was nearly twice the age of the other trainees, and was
accepted into the 5th Special Forces Group.

Kurtz returned to Vietnam in 1966 with the Green Berets and was part
of the hearts and minds campaign which also included fortifying
hamlets. On his next tour, Kurtz was assigned to the Gamma Project, in
which he was to raise an army of Montagnards in and around the
Vietnamese–Cambodian border to strike at the Viet Cong and N.V.A.
Kurtz located his army, including their wives and children, at a
remote abandoned Cambodian temple which they fortified. From their
base, Kurtz led attacks on the local V.C. and the regular N.V.A. in
the region.

Kurtz employed barbaric methods not only to defeat his enemy but also
to send fear. At first MACV didn't object to Kurtz's tactics,
especially as they proved successful. This soon changed when Kurtz
allowed photographs of his atrocities to be released to the world.

In late 1968, when Kurtz failed to respond to MACV's repeated orders
to return to Da Nang and resign his command after he ordered the
summary execution of four South Vietnamese intelligence agents whom he
suspected of being double agents for the Viet Cong, the MACV sent a
Green Beret Captain named Richard Colby to bring Kurtz back from
Cambodia. Colby joined up with Kurtz instead of bringing him back to
Da Nang, either because he was brainwashed or because he felt a
sympathy to Kurtz's cause.

With Colby's failure, MACV then selected CPT Benjamin L. Willard, a
former paratrooper and now a CIA assassin, to journey up the Nung
river and kill Kurtz. Willard succeeded in his mission only because
Kurtz, himself broken mentally by the savage war he had waged, wanted
Willard to kill him and release him from his own suffering. Before
Willard killed him, Kurtz asked Willard to find his (Kurtz's) wife and
son and explain truthfully what he'd done in the war.
Inspiration

Colonel Kurtz is based on the character of a 19th century ivory
trader, also called Kurtz, from the novella Heart of Darkness by
Joseph Conrad. However, the movie's Kurtz is widely believed to have
been modeled after Tony Poe, a highly-decorated and highly unorthodox
Vietnam-era Paramilitary Officer from the CIA's Special Activities
Division.[1] Poe was known to drop severed heads into enemy-controlled
villages as a form of psychological warfare and to use human ears to
record the number of enemies his indigenous troops had killed. He
would send these ears back to his superiors as proof of his efforts
deep inside Laos.[2][3]

Coppola denies that Poe was a primary influence and instead says the
character was loosely based on Special Forces Colonel Robert B.
Rheault, whose 1969 arrest over the murder of a suspected double agent
generated substantial news coverage.[4]
or Anthony Poshepny

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Poe

Anthony Alexander Poshepny
Born September 18, 1924
Long Beach, California
Died June 27, 2003 (aged 79)
California
Allegiance United States of America
Service/branch United States Marine Corps and Central Intelligence
Agency
Unit Special Activities Division
Battles/wars World War II, Korean War, Vietnam War, Laos
Awards Intelligence Star (very rare CIA valor award), Silver Star,
Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Combat Action Ribbon, Parachutist Badge

Anthony Alexander Poshepny (September 18, 1924 – June 27, 2003), known
as Tony Poe, was a CIA paramilitary officer in what is now called
Special Activities Division. He is best remembered for training the
United States Secret Army in Laos during the Vietnam War.

Early life and career

Accurate accounting of Poshepny's career is complicated by government
secrecy and by his tendency to embellish stories. For example, he
often claimed to be a refugee from Hungary, but was actually born in
Long Beach, California. He joined the US Marine Corps in 1942 serving
in the 2nd Marine Parachute Battalion and fought in the 5th Marine
Division on Iwo Jima,[1] receiving two Purple Hearts. After graduating
from San Jose State University in 1950, he joined the CIA and worked
in Korea during the Korean War, training refugees for sabotage
missions behind enemy lines.

After the Korean war, Poshepny joined the Bangkok-based CIA front
company Overseas Southeast Asia Supply (SEA Supply), which provided
military equipment to Kuomintang forces based in Burma. In 1958,
Poshepny tried unsuccessfully to arrange a military uprising against
Sukarno, the president of Indonesia. From 1958 to 1960, he trained
various special missions teams, including Tibetan Khambas and Hui
Muslims at Camp Hale, for operations in China against the Communist
government. Poshepny sometimes claimed that he personally escorted the
14th Dalai Lama out of Tibet, but this has been denied, both by former
CIA officers involved in the Tibet operation, and by the Tibetan
government-in-exile.
Laos

The agency was impressed with Poshepny's ability to train paramilitary
forces quickly and awarded him the Intelligence Star in 1959. Two
years later, he was assigned with J. Vinton Lawrence to train Hmong
hill tribes in Laos to fight North Vietnamese and Pathet Lao forces.

In Laos, Poshepny gained the respect of the Hmong forces with
practices that were barbaric by agency standards. He paid Hmong
fighters to bring him the ears of dead enemy soldiers, and, on at
least one occasion, he mailed a bag of ears to the US embassy in
Vientiane to prove his body counts. He dropped severed heads onto
enemy locations twice in a grisly form of psy-ops. Although his orders
were only to train forces, he also went into battle with them and was
wounded several times by shrapnel.

Over several years, Poshepny grew disillusioned with the government's
management of the war. He accused then-Laotian Major General Vang Pao
of using the war, and CIA assets, to enrich himself through the opium
trade. The CIA extracted Poshepny from Laos in 1970 and reassigned him
to a training camp in Thailand until his retirement in 1974. He
received another Intelligence Star in 1975.

Retirement

After the war Poshepny remained in Thailand with his Hmong wife and
four children. He moved the family to California in the 1990s. He
frequently appeared at Hmong veteran gatherings and helped veterans
immigrate and settle in the US. He freely admitted his actions during
the war to reporters and historians, saying they were a necessary
response to communist aggression.

Several press stories have suggested that Poshepny was the model for
Colonel Walter Kurtz in the film Apocalypse Now, but both Poshepny and
director Francis Ford Coppola have denied the connection.
Post by Rod Stein
Doesn't that prove that Rightists are a violent, ignorant mob of
savages?
Not all conservatives would accept Gunner and the GG hanger on.
after all such people just cost them the Presidency and over a
Billion dollars.
Post by Rod Stein
That's why some of them post positively about Uganda as a a right wing
paradise, because that's a third world shit hole where they execute
homosexuals.
They seem to have backed off.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/02/uganda-anti-gay-bill-death-penalty_n_2227333.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices

KAMPALA, Uganda -- The Ugandan lawmaker who originally authored an
anti-gay bill proposing death for some homosexual acts said Friday
that a new version of the proposed legislation doesn't contain the
death penalty.

Parliamentarian David Bahati said the bill, which is expected to be
voted on next month, had "moved away from the death penalty after
considering all the issues that have been raised."

"There is no death penalty," he told The Associated Press
Post by Rod Stein
Of course, if the allegedly "rugged independent"
libertarians want to live in their dream country, they should try
Somalia. There's hardly any government there, and nobody pays taxes.
It's often been suggested but they can't stray far from US hospitals
and the taxpayers who finance their treatments in them
Post by Rod Stein
Rightists are like pigs in a sewer, sucking up feces like it's food.
Well to pigs it IS food of course.
--
Loading Image...
Gunner
2012-12-03 05:03:56 UTC
Permalink
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Post by GOP_Decline_and_Fall
Stephen Tonsor
Grey Guest and Gummer say that anyone who says things that insult
their rightist sensibilities should be put on a list for
extermination. Or in Grey Guest's woodchipper.
Doesn't that prove that Rightists are a violent, ignorant mob of
savages?
Nope. It simply proves that we consider Leftwingers to be no more than
cockroaches and vermin.
Afterall...you really are of no value to any democratic society.
That's why some of them post positively about Uganda as a a right wing
paradise, because that's a third world shit hole where they execute
homosexuals.
They do the same in Iraq and Iran and the Muslim nations which you
folks defend at every possible moment.

Of course, if the allegedly "rugged independent"
libertarians want to live in their dream country, they should try
Somalia. There's hardly any government there, and nobody pays taxes.
Thats the big difference between gutter rat Nazi totalitarian
Leftwingers and Libertarians and conservatives.....we dont want much
government..and hence little taxes...while you want a government that
regulates when you shit, when you sleep, when you wake, when you eat
and when you suck dick.

Sorry bozobreath..we cant seem to find that in the Constitution, or in
the writings of the Founders. Even the Hamiltonians didn go that
far..and they were largely scum.
Rightists are like pigs in a sewer, sucking up feces like it's food.
The ravings of the mentally ill...its what we expect from the Left.

As well as you changing the reply to:

alt.christnet.second-coming.real-soon-now, alt.religion.christian,
alt.religion.christian.last-days

Thats rather pathetic..this is what..the 15th or so time you have done
this in the past 20 or so posts?

You are indeed mentally ill. Crazier than a shit eating possum.

You dont even have a real nym. Just a series of useful identites.

A mental case writ large. But then..you are a leftwinger..so its
expected.

Begone

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Gunner
2012-12-03 02:28:37 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 2 Dec 2012 13:03:25 -0800 (PST), Liquidator Brunt
Post by Liquidator Brunt
Post by Too_Many_Tools
It may....considering that he has done quite well in leading the
Nation out of the Great Bush Recession.
And he has four more years to do much more....
TMT
Right wing revisionist dogma dictates that FDR was a disaster.
Notice this Troll changed the Reply to:

alt.christnet.second-coming.real-soon-now, alt.religion.christian,
alt.religion.christian.last-days

typical of the Leftwinger...they are mentally ill. That being said...



Leftwing Revisionists always overlook or attempt to cover up what
their very own scientists and economists say about FDR.

Or are you...snicker...claiming UCLA is a Rightwing college?
(University California, Los Angeles)

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx

UCLA Newsroom > All Stories > News Releases

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists
calculate

By Meg Sullivan August 10, 2004

Two UCLA economists say they have figured out why the Great Depression
dragged on for almost 15 years, and they blame a suspect previously
thought to be beyond reproach: President Franklin D. Roosevelt.

After scrutinizing Roosevelt's record for four years, Harold L. Cole
and Lee E. Ohanian conclude in a new study that New Deal policies
signed into law 71 years ago thwarted economic recovery for seven long
years.

"Why the Great Depression lasted so long has always been a great
mystery, and because we never really knew the reason, we have always
worried whether we would have another 10- to 15-year economic slump,"
said Ohanian, vice chair of UCLA's Department of Economics. "We found
that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with
ill-conceived stimulus policies."

In an article in the August issue of the Journal of Political Economy,
Ohanian and Cole blame specific anti-competition and pro-labor
measures that Roosevelt promoted and signed into law June 16, 1933.

"President Roosevelt believed that excessive competition was
responsible for the Depression by reducing prices and wages, and by
extension reducing employment and demand for goods and services," said
Cole, also a UCLA professor of economics. "So he came up with a
recovery package that would be unimaginable today, allowing businesses
in every industry to collude without the threat of antitrust
prosecution and workers to demand salaries about 25 percent above
where they ought to have been, given market forces. The economy was
poised for a beautiful recovery, but that recovery was stalled by
these misguided policies."

Using data collected in 1929 by the Conference Board and the Bureau of
Labor Statistics, Cole and Ohanian were able to establish average
wages and prices across a range of industries just prior to the
Depression. By adjusting for annual increases in productivity, they
were able to use the 1929 benchmark to figure out what prices and
wages would have been during every year of the Depression had
Roosevelt's policies not gone into effect. They then compared those
figures with actual prices and wages as reflected in the Conference
Board data.

In the three years following the implementation of Roosevelt's
policies, wages in 11 key industries averaged 25 percent higher than
they otherwise would have done, the economists calculate. But
unemployment was also 25 percent higher than it should have been,
given gains in productivity.

Meanwhile, prices across 19 industries averaged 23 percent above where
they should have been, given the state of the economy. With goods and
services that much harder for consumers to afford, demand stalled and
the gross national product floundered at 27 percent below where it
otherwise might have been.

"High wages and high prices in an economic slump run contrary to
everything we know about market forces in economic downturns," Ohanian
said. "As we've seen in the past several years, salaries and prices
fall when unemployment is high. By artificially inflating both, the
New Deal policies short-circuited the market's self-correcting
forces."

The policies were contained in the National Industrial Recovery Act
(NIRA), which exempted industries from antitrust prosecution if they
agreed to enter into collective bargaining agreements that
significantly raised wages. Because protection from antitrust
prosecution all but ensured higher prices for goods and services, a
wide range of industries took the bait, Cole and Ohanian found. By
1934 more than 500 industries, which accounted for nearly 80 percent
of private, non-agricultural employment, had entered into the
collective bargaining agreements called for under NIRA.

Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60
percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that
the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they
believe the slump actually ended: 1943.

Roosevelt's role in lifting the nation out of the Great Depression has
been so revered that Time magazine readers cited it in 1999 when
naming him the 20th century's second-most influential figure.

"This is exciting and valuable research," said Robert E. Lucas Jr.,
the 1995 Nobel Laureate in economics, and the John Dewey Distinguished
Service Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago. "The
prevention and cure of depressions is a central mission of
macroeconomics, and if we can't understand what happened in the 1930s,
how can we be sure it won't happen again?"

NIRA's role in prolonging the Depression has not been more closely
scrutinized because the Supreme Court declared the act
unconstitutional within two years of its passage.

"Historians have assumed that the policies didn't have an impact
because they were too short-lived, but the proof is in the pudding,"
Ohanian said. "We show that they really did artificially inflate wages
and prices."

Even after being deemed unconstitutional, Roosevelt's anti-competition
policies persisted — albeit under a different guise, the scholars
found. Ohanian and Cole painstakingly documented the extent to which
the Roosevelt administration looked the other way as industries once
protected by NIRA continued to engage in price-fixing practices for
four more years.

The number of antitrust cases brought by the Department of Justice
fell from an average of 12.5 cases per year during the 1920s to an
average of 6.5 cases per year from 1935 to 1938, the scholars found.
Collusion had become so widespread that one Department of Interior
official complained of receiving identical bids from a protected
industry (steel) on 257 different occasions between mid-1935 and
mid-1936. The bids were not only identical but also 50 percent higher
than foreign steel prices. Without competition, wholesale prices
remained inflated, averaging 14 percent higher than they would have
been without the troublesome practices, the UCLA economists calculate.

NIRA's labor provisions, meanwhile, were strengthened in the National
Relations Act, signed into law in 1935. As union membership doubled,
so did labor's bargaining power, rising from 14 million strike days in
1936 to about 28 million in 1937. By 1939 wages in protected
industries remained 24 percent to 33 percent above where they should
have been, based on 1929 figures, Cole and Ohanian calculate.
Unemployment persisted. By 1939 the U.S. unemployment rate was 17.2
percent, down somewhat from its 1933 peak of 24.9 percent but still
remarkably high. By comparison, in May 2003, the unemployment rate of
6.1 percent was the highest in nine years.

Recovery came only after the Department of Justice dramatically
stepped up enforcement of antitrust cases nearly four-fold and
organized labor suffered a string of setbacks, the economists found.

"The fact that the Depression dragged on for years convinced
generations of economists and policy-makers that capitalism could not
be trusted to recover from depressions and that significant government
intervention was required to achieve good outcomes," Cole said.
"Ironically, our work shows that the recovery would have been very
rapid had the government not intervened."

-UCLA-
LSMS368

Piss off, you far leftwing extremist fringe kook. The jig is up..and
your days are numbered..and the numbers are small


Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
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